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Salient points from WMAU Public Meeting held on 01 April 2012
circa 9 visitors to the discussion.
Apr 01 17:02:38 <jayvdb> note the log of this meeting will be sent to the members list and published online Apr 01 17:03:30 <Chriswaterguy> Ah, AEST, not AEDT - I'm not late then. Apr 01 17:03:44 <jayvdb> im going to duck afk for a few minutes. in the meantime, any ideas for what to discuss? Apr 01 17:03:53 <jayvdb> there has been lots happening at Berlin Apr 01 17:04:13 <jayvdb> https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23wmcon Apr 01 17:04:32 <Chriswaterguy> Will check. Any other news we should catch up on? Apr 01 17:07:43 <russavia> is craig and/or liam here? Apr 01 17:09:16 <russavia> i've had a pretty successful week onwiki -- but i wouldn't call that news...well no new news anyway ;) Apr 01 17:09:47 <jayvdb> Craig is in Berlin Apr 01 17:09:56 <russavia> ahhh and Liam? Apr 01 17:10:50 <jayvdb> Liam isnt online afaics Apr 01 17:10:54 <russavia> i saw the ABC get with Liam Apr 01 17:12:04 <russavia> i'm sure he organised the video with menzies talking about the petrov affair just to troll me ;) Apr 01 17:12:08 <jayvdb> a quick wrap up of the activities at Berlin. The WMF board has put out three resolutions, but the minutes and Q&A havent been published yet Apr 01 17:13:27 <jayvdb> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Fundraising_2012 Apr 01 17:13:39 <jayvdb> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee Apr 01 17:13:53 <jayvdb> they are the main two. Apr 01 17:14:36 <russavia> it's not very transparent to only mention two john....what was the third one? Apr 01 17:14:49 <jayvdb> also the chapters have formed a Chapters Council. Apr 01 17:15:30 <jayvdb> the third one is a WMF board procedural change. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_of_Trustees_Voting_Transparency Apr 01 17:15:54 <jayvdb> here is the chapters council page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_Council Apr 01 17:16:07 <russavia> ummm.....why is WMAU not processing any donations? does not meet the criteria? Apr 01 17:16:08 <Bidgee> How is the camera grant program being going? Apr 01 17:16:40 <jayvdb> here is the list of chapters support as it stood prior to Berlin https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_Council/Chapter_Support Apr 01 17:17:47 <jayvdb> chapters have been committing small amounts of funding to the new organisation. We didn't. We indicated that we'll consider providing funds if the Council asks us to Apr 01 17:18:42 <Steven_Zhang> just a note, offering my apologies Apr 01 17:18:49 <jayvdb> Bidgee, the committee tentatively approved some more camera grant program applications at the last meeting - we'll finalise that when everyone is back from Berlin Apr 01 17:19:04 <Steven_Zhang> even though I am technically here, doing other things around the house Apr 01 17:19:05 <Steven_Zhang> ' Apr 01 17:19:06 <Steven_Zhang> :-) Apr 01 17:19:28 <russavia> ok joh, with providing funds to new organisation...where would it be coming from? Apr 01 17:19:44 * Chriswaterguy waves to Steven_Zhang Apr 01 17:19:57 <Steven_Zhang> hey :) Apr 01 17:20:15 <jayvdb> russavia, we have reserves from the previous fundraiser Apr 01 17:20:29 <Chriswaterguy> jayvdb, good move... See exactly what we're spotting before making the final commitment of funds. Apr 01 17:20:59 <jayvdb> longer term our funding can come from: Apr 01 17:21:09 <jayvdb> a) the Fundraising Dissemination Committee Apr 01 17:21:16 <russavia> ok...and what about the fundraising resolution? why is WMAU being restricted from collecting donations yet DE, UK, FR and CH are being allowed to...am I correct in understanding that they get a percentage of what is processed? Apr 01 17:21:31 <jayvdb> b) direct donations from Australians if we do our own fundraising Apr 01 17:21:39 <jayvdb> c) grants, etc Apr 01 17:22:59 <jayvdb> russavia, everyone except the WMF believes that local fundraising is better. WMF believes that centralised WMF-only fundraising is more cost effective Apr 01 17:23:21 <Bidgee> Cool John, good to see others applying! Apr 01 17:23:37 <jayvdb> the big four were allowed to keep fundraising as a compromise Apr 01 17:23:42 <Steven_Zhang> i think local fundraising is better. Apr 01 17:23:48 <Steven_Zhang> who's the big four? Apr 01 17:23:59 <jayvdb> DE, UK, FR and CH Apr 01 17:24:04 <Steven_Zhang> WMNY, WMDC, WMUK and WMIDK i imagine Apr 01 17:24:05 <Steven_Zhang> oh Apr 01 17:24:22 <Steven_Zhang> we don't have a say? Apr 01 17:24:23 <russavia> DE, FR, UK and CH Apr 01 17:24:31 <russavia> we have zero say according to WMF Apr 01 17:24:38 <jayvdb> nope - we were not even asked if we wanted to keep fundraising Apr 01 17:24:39 <russavia> not until 2015 Apr 01 17:24:52 <Steven_Zhang> so we Apr 01 17:24:52 <Steven_Zhang> 'r Apr 01 17:24:52 <Steven_Zhang> Apr 01 17:24:53 <Steven_Zhang> oops Apr 01 17:24:55 <Steven_Zhang> w Apr 01 17:24:59 <Steven_Zhang> stupid computer Apr 01 17:25:04 <Steven_Zhang> we're just stuck with it? Apr 01 17:25:30 <Steven_Zhang> does it negatively impact us? Apr 01 17:25:33 <jayvdb> we developed the infrastructure in 2010 and now they believe that it isnt something that chapters should be doing Apr 01 17:26:05 <russavia> when you say we developed the infrastructure? you mean to say WMAU spent funds on this? only for WMF to reject it? Apr 01 17:26:11 <Chriswaterguy> Have they actually said *not* to? Apr 01 17:26:12 <jayvdb> Steven_Zhang, well the WMF raised ~AU$1M from Australian donors, and we can apply for some of that Apr 01 17:26:28 <Steven_Zhang> but only what we "need" Apr 01 17:26:41 <Steven_Zhang> according to their strict criteria, right? Apr 01 17:26:59 <jayvdb> russavia, no. we obtained free hosting, and worked our butts off setting up the infrastructure, which is all free software + Paypal Apr 01 17:27:05 <russavia> do you have any idea what other chapters percentage "cut" was from their payment processing? Apr 01 17:27:38 <Bidgee> Who do the big four think the rule the other chapters! Apr 01 17:28:07 <jayvdb> russavia, the current fundraising agreement is that fundraising chapters keep the amount they say they need in their approved budget Apr 01 17:28:38 <jayvdb> Bidgee, the big four all put forward convincing arguments that every chapter should fundraise Apr 01 17:28:56 <jayvdb> these arguments were ignored by the WMF board Apr 01 17:29:16 <russavia> oh really? so it could be, not necessarily is, a case of let's say WMUK having their budget fully funded by WMF? and you guys have to slog your butts off to fund our chapter? just seems entirely weird to me Apr 01 17:29:48 <russavia> *by WMF, I mean by their payment processing etc Apr 01 17:29:53 <jayvdb> see for example the German response: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_and_Funds_Dissemination/Wikimedia%E2%80%99s_culture_of_sharing Apr 01 17:30:23 <russavia> it's just weird, because I hear of WMDE buying haselblad cameras and the like....and to think that this is being paid for by payment processing Apr 01 17:30:46 <jayvdb> WMDE does a lot of their own fundraising Apr 01 17:30:55 <jayvdb> i.e. not during the annual fundraiser Apr 01 17:31:19 <Steven_Zhang> can't we just fundraise anyway? Apr 01 17:31:32 <Steven_Zhang> i'd donate to WMAU Apr 01 17:31:36 <russavia> of couese they would....but at the same time having these funds handed on a silver platter by WMF whilst WMAU has to basically beg for it (if needed) is a bit f'ed up Apr 01 17:31:41 <Steven_Zhang> because I know that money is going to australian interests Apr 01 17:31:42 <Steven_Zhang> not so much so Apr 01 17:31:48 <Steven_Zhang> to just Wikimedia Apr 01 17:32:31 <russavia> sure we could do fundraising..we can put john in short shorts and a skimpy tanktop and have him stand on Oxford street with a tin cup....that'll raise us some funds I am sure ;) Apr 01 17:32:38 <jayvdb> Steven_Zhang, we can fundraise. that is a positive outcome of these resolutions. it makes it clear that the WMF board still believes that chapters can fundraise on their own Apr 01 17:33:54 <jayvdb> however, we would receive harsh criticism if we devoted a lot of money to fundraising, because the WMF board doesnt believe that chapters should make fundraising a core activity of the organisation Apr 01 17:34:03 <russavia> where's a copy of our b udget, etc? Apr 01 17:34:21 <JJHarrison> (I'm here now, reading) Apr 01 17:34:30 <jayvdb> http://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Budget Apr 01 17:34:31 <Bidgee> Right, WMF just want chapters to die out? Apr 01 17:35:05 <jayvdb> WMF wants chapters to apply for grants from the Funds Dissemination Committee Apr 01 17:36:16 <russavia> tx for link Apr 01 17:36:42 <russavia> that's a decent budget Apr 01 17:37:57 <jayvdb> We'll need to put together a new budget for 2012-13 financial year, or a 2012 annual plan and a 2013 annual plan Apr 01 17:38:20 <jayvdb> the WMF is currently only giving money to calendar year plans :/ Apr 01 17:39:05 <jayvdb> our budget was a financial year plan as we presumed we would be in the fundraiser and thus receiving money directly Apr 01 17:39:58 <russavia> so out of 315,800 is WMAU covered for the lot from own resources? Apr 01 17:40:47 <jayvdb> we have a hole in our budget, so we're not able to do everything we had hoped to Apr 01 17:41:02 <russavia> how big a hole? Apr 01 17:41:27 <russavia> there's a hole in your budget, delilah delilah Apr 01 17:42:01 <jayvdb> ~$100,000 Apr 01 17:42:40 <jayvdb> which means we need to pick which of the big items are most desirable Apr 01 17:42:40 <russavia> ok...and is WMF making up that shortfall? or no? Apr 01 17:43:00 <jayvdb> we're still in discussion with WMF about that. Apr 01 17:43:10 <jayvdb> onto what we are doing ... Apr 01 17:43:12 <jayvdb> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Regional_WikiAcademy_program Apr 01 17:43:23 <jayvdb> at the last committee meeting that program was approved Apr 01 17:43:57 <jayvdb> which is $50,000 for workshops, with an expression of interest to go out real soon now Apr 01 17:47:16 <jayvdb> any thoughts about that, or ideas for new programs? Apr 01 17:48:17 <Steven_Zhang> wow thats a large hole Apr 01 17:48:26 <Steven_Zhang> workshops is a good idea but woah Apr 01 17:48:29 <russavia> new programs? to be funded how? Apr 01 17:48:40 <russavia> how much did we get from WMF out of curiousity Apr 01 17:48:42 <Steven_Zhang> thats one heck of a hole. kinda like the hole in tony abott's budghet Apr 01 17:49:18 <JJHarrison> Well, for the wiki academy thing Apr 01 17:49:22 <jayvdb> russavia, we havent received any money from the WMF since 2008 or 2009 - and that was about $10,000 Apr 01 17:49:30 <JJHarrison> Some examples would say a lot. Apr 01 17:49:33 <russavia> $10,000??????? MY GAWD Apr 01 17:49:50 * Chriswaterguy will ask about WikiAcademy later... Apr 01 17:50:08 <Bidgee> <Steven_Zhang> thats one heck of a hole. kinda like the hole in tony abott's budghet <-- only hole is in Tony's budgies Apr 01 17:50:27 <Chriswaterguy> That sounds pretty outrageous - why so little? Apr 01 17:50:34 <russavia> $10,000 and around AU$1 million comes from Aussie in WMF fundraising? ummmm...that's worse than what WA gets screwed over by the Fed govt Apr 01 17:50:37 <jayvdb> JJHarrison, thats a good idea. we were hoping that the SLQ EOI responses could be published - we need to ask them if they mind Apr 01 17:50:48 <Bidgee> WFM are tight, as always Apr 01 17:50:52 <Bidgee> *WMF Apr 01 17:51:38 <jayvdb> Chriswaterguy, in 2010 we received money directly from Australian donors and gave 50% to the WMF. Apr 01 17:51:46 <JJHarrison> Would a "Wiki takes ..." event be in scope for the WikiAcadamy thing, for example? Apr 01 17:51:48 <russavia> i see photos of SOPPA preparations at WMF -- I am guessing they would have spent around that just on beers Apr 01 17:52:24 <Chriswaterguy> jayvdb, so they think we've got plenty to go on with? Apr 01 17:52:45 <jayvdb> in 2011 the WMF resumed control of the fundraiser in Australia, and we have yet to apply for funding from the WMF because we've yet to have a replacement framework that we are happy with Apr 01 17:53:24 <jayvdb> JJHarrison, no ... the WikiAcademy program we have approved is for regional events only Apr 01 17:53:34 <JJHarrison> Does it matter if many attendees come from further way provided the host town is "remote"? Apr 01 17:54:04 <JJHarrison> I mean, say there was an event in bendigo Apr 01 17:54:14 <JJHarrison> but 6 attendees came from melbourne, would that matter? Apr 01 17:55:29 <jayvdb> JJHarrison, we've removed a lot of the GLAM specific requirements which were in the program Apr 01 17:55:53 <jayvdb> so something like the Wiki takes .. events could be suitable Apr 01 17:58:28 <Chriswaterguy> Ok... so to get funding now, we have to do it in a certain way, that we're not happy with? (The pragmatist in me is curious/concerned about that) Apr 01 18:00:02 <jayvdb> Chriswaterguy, we had a contract signed by WMF and WMAU mid last year, which stated that WMAU would be directly fundraising ... so we're a bit annoyed that this contract has been ignored Apr 01 18:00:07 <Chriswaterguy> Wondering why WikiAcademy is only for small & remote towns - is there another program doing this in bigger towns? Apr 01 18:00:31 <russavia> well let's enforce the contract Apr 01 18:00:40 <Chriswaterguy> Ah, bugger - and no explanation of why? Apr 01 18:01:17 <jayvdb> we put out this statement http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Fundraising_Principles Apr 01 18:03:04 --> caitcatt1 (...) has joined #wikimedia-au Apr 01 18:03:35 <jayvdb> Chriswaterguy, the WMF has put out lots of explanations, some general (e.g. cost effectiveness and efficiency), and specifics like WMAU hasnt been providing regular reports to the community (at the time we had negligible activity) Apr 01 18:04:44 <jayvdb> and also we are not a Deductible gift recipient (DGR), so they argue that the donors dont receive any benefits from donating to WMAU instead of WMF Apr 01 18:05:28 <russavia> oh wait....so donations to WMAU aren't tax deductible obviously? Apr 01 18:05:37 <jayvdb> thats right Apr 01 18:05:50 <Steven_Zhang> Bidgee: ew Apr 01 18:05:54 <russavia> damn, can i have my $10,000 donation back please Apr 01 18:05:57 <Chriswaterguy> Ok, but are they acknowledging that they agreed to do something and are now reneging? Apr 01 18:06:09 <Steven_Zhang> jayvdb: wait Apr 01 18:06:20 <Steven_Zhang> Aussie donors donate $1,000,000 Apr 01 18:06:26 <Steven_Zhang> we get $10,000 of that Apr 01 18:06:28 <jayvdb> WMAU doesnt pay tax, but donations to WMAU arnt tax deductible for the donor Apr 01 18:06:40 <Steven_Zhang> wtf do they do with the other $990,000??? Apr 01 18:07:03 <jayvdb> Steven_Zhang, no, the timeline is WMF gave us money in 2009 I think to finance GLAM-WIKI Apr 01 18:07:36 <russavia> ok so how difficult is it to get tax-deductible status here? Apr 01 18:07:39 <jayvdb> in 2010 the WMF let us fundraise directly, and we received ~$300,000?, and we gave 50% to the WMF Apr 01 18:08:26 <Steven_Zhang> what'd they do with the money Apr 01 18:08:28 <jayvdb> and the path forward has been unclear since July 2011 when we were told we would not be eligible to fundraise again Apr 01 18:08:32 <Steven_Zhang> apart from shove it in the coffers? Apr 01 18:08:49 <Steven_Zhang> I am really confused now Apr 01 18:08:57 <jayvdb> russavia, very hard. we've explained this to the WMF Apr 01 18:09:05 <Steven_Zhang> if I am an aussie donor and want my money to go to WMAU, they should allocate it to WMAU Apr 01 18:09:20 <Chriswaterguy> Btw are we working on getting tax-deductible status in Oz? Apr 01 18:09:23 <jayvdb> we could be DGR if we limited our scope drastically Apr 01 18:09:49 <russavia> our scope? what would be reduced? Apr 01 18:09:55 <russavia> scopewise Apr 01 18:10:01 <jayvdb> russavia, almost everything Apr 01 18:10:12 <jayvdb> we could have a scope of 'digital library' and be DGR Apr 01 18:10:28 <jayvdb> that would include supporting Wikisource and maybe WikiCommons Apr 01 18:10:32 <jayvdb> but not Wikipedia Apr 01 18:10:46 <russavia> why no WP? Apr 01 18:11:11 <jayvdb> russavia, the 'library' part is traditional learning resources Apr 01 18:11:28 <jayvdb> e.g. Project Gutenberg Australia is a DGR Apr 01 18:11:41 <russavia> well isn't WP a collection of knowledge...it's a library of sorts Apr 01 18:12:15 <jayvdb> professional advice is we have buckleys chance of having Wikipedia approved Apr 01 18:12:28 <russavia> basically what it really all boils down to is that we get royally screwed by WMF because we are also royally screwed by our own laws covered DGR status Apr 01 18:12:46 <jayvdb> anyway, this is the current system, with the ATO as the granter of the DGR status Apr 01 18:13:30 <russavia> we could foundation a charity on the basis of it being a religion Apr 01 18:14:09 <jayvdb> there are a lot of reforms about to happen. Apr 01 18:14:12 <jayvdb> thirdsectormagazine.com.au/news/productivity_commission_recommends_significant_sector_reforms/008936/ Apr 01 18:14:30 <jayvdb> russavia, hehe. lets not :P Apr 01 18:14:44 <Chriswaterguy> Set up a sub-organization, take tax-deductible donations for activities within that scope, while WMA does broader things? Awkward, I know, but we could do more targeted fundraising. Apr 01 18:14:49 <russavia> why not? if they let scientology be a religion, why not us? Apr 01 18:15:07 <russavia> good idea chriswaterguy Apr 01 18:15:16 <jayvdb> http://www.nationalcompact.gov.au/news?page=3 Apr 01 18:15:34 <Steven_Zhang> lol wikipedia as a religion :) Apr 01 18:15:35 <jayvdb> Chriswaterguy, thats a good idea. Apr 01 18:16:07 <Steven_Zhang> where is everyoen today? Apr 01 18:16:25 <jayvdb> anyone in Melbourne who is interested should attend http://thirdsectorevents.com.au/speakers Apr 01 18:16:44 <Steven_Zhang> im in melbourne :) Apr 01 18:17:10 <caitcatt1> so am I Apr 01 18:17:28 <russavia> and i'm now stuck on level 43 on angry birds Apr 01 18:18:29 <Chriswaterguy> Steven_Zhang, yes! Far more worthy of tax-exempt status than child abusers... Apr 01 18:19:03 <jayvdb> Steven_Zhang, cost is 189 for non-profit delegates Apr 01 18:19:38 * Chriswaterguy deletes additional comments on religions & taxes before posting Apr 01 18:19:56 * russavia is gonna smash his screen in a minute Apr 01 18:20:02 <Steven_Zhang> jayvdb: hmm? Apr 01 18:20:54 <u99of9> so... Apr 01 18:21:17 <u99of9> what's the current topic? Apr 01 18:21:37 <jayvdb> your choice .. ;-) Apr 01 18:21:52 <Chriswaterguy> Need to go soon. Wasn't planning in am IRC meeting via phone in Subway... low bat. Apr 01 18:22:09 <jayvdb> we've been discussing tax-deductible status, as that was a requirement for being a fundraising chapter Apr 01 18:22:30 <jayvdb> however we arnt going to be allowed to be a fundraising chapter until 2016 Apr 01 18:22:37 <Steven_Zhang> Chriswaterguy: i did a conference call with someone from the WMF in an apple store, so there you go Apr 01 18:22:46 <Steven_Zhang> they don't need to know, john :P Apr 01 18:22:59 <Chriswaterguy> :) Apr 01 18:23:18 <u99of9> are we going to have city wikiacademies too? Apr 01 18:23:38 <Chriswaterguy> btw, #Appropedia is now somewhat active. And we have a tech intern with MW experience (yay!) Who hangs out there - username JRWR. Apr 01 18:23:39 <JJHarrison> (back) Apr 01 18:23:57 <jayvdb> congrats Chris Apr 01 18:25:12 <jayvdb> u99of9, anyone can do a WikiAcademy for low costs. We have provided financial support for one in Melbourne. Apr 01 18:25:25 <jayvdb> its the regional ones which need large financial support Apr 01 18:25:27 <u99of9> also, you said that WMAU could apply for grants from the WMF, can individuals apply too? Apr 01 18:25:38 <jayvdb> u99of9, yes Apr 01 18:25:47 <u99of9> (do they have small grant programs like WMAU does?) Apr 01 18:26:01 <jayvdb> however they are usually rejected ;-) Apr 01 18:26:19 <jayvdb> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants Apr 01 18:26:51 <jayvdb> afaik, the new Funds Dissemination Committee will be taking over the role of grants to individuals as well Apr 01 18:27:24 <jayvdb> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee says "3. funds for other movement spending. This is for dissemination to all movement entities, including individuals, chapters, other entities, and the Wikimedia Foundation itself, for activities that support our mission." Apr 01 18:27:50 <russavia> the operative words there being Apr 01 18:27:56 <russavia> ...the wikimedia foundation itself... Apr 01 18:28:51 <Bidgee> WMF SOPA Party Apr 01 18:29:13 <russavia> aha Apr 01 18:32:38 <Chriswaterguy> Very informative meeting. Thank you, people. Apr 01 18:32:49 <jayvdb> thx for coming Chris Apr 01 18:35:01 * peter-} apologises for being late and tries to catch up Apr 01 18:36:03 <u99of9> I've written some scripts that make graphs like this: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AustralianDepartureReason.svg Apr 01 18:36:27 <u99of9> where should I post the scripts publicly so that others can use them? Apr 01 18:36:41 <JJHarrison> What about in the image description? Apr 01 18:37:02 <u99of9> actually, all of these so far http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Statistics_of_Australia Apr 01 18:37:26 <-- russavia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) Apr 01 18:37:31 <jayvdb> u99of9, we could set up a version control repository .. ? Apr 01 18:39:01 <Graham87> there's a typo in at least the arrivals and departures image description pages: "Statisticcs" should be "Statistics" Apr 01 18:39:36 <Graham87> er ... the one you linked plus the first one in the category Apr 01 18:39:40 <u99of9> thanks Graham :) Apr 01 18:40:38 <Graham87> no problem Apr 01 18:41:03 <u99of9> hmm, I can't find that typo... where exactly? Apr 01 18:41:46 <Graham87> I've fixed a few Apr 01 18:41:56 <u99of9> ahhh :) too quick for me Apr 01 18:42:23 <u99of9> the script doesn't do the actual uploads... that was my mistake :) Apr 01 18:42:32 <Steven_Zhang> yeah they reject everything Apr 01 18:43:02 <Graham87> typos are easy to make Apr 01 18:43:32 <-- Chriswaterguy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) Apr 01 18:45:21 <Steven_Zhang> jayvdb: still waiting on that email :-) Apr 01 18:45:49 <jayvdb> ya. been busy this w/e with Berlin Conference stuff Apr 01 18:47:10 <Steven_Zhang> WOAH Apr 01 18:47:34 <Steven_Zhang> my 64GB ipad is almost full O_O Apr 01 18:47:44 <Steven_Zhang> wtf do i do with my iPad?? Apr 01 18:47:51 <Steven_Zhang> (answer is: everything) Apr 01 18:51:15 <peter-}> jayvdb: Are deductions to WMF deductable in Oz? Apr 01 18:51:30 <jayvdb> peter-}, no Apr 01 18:52:49 <Steven_Zhang> slow computer Apr 01 18:52:53 <peter-}> So the DGR requirement for WMAU to fundraise is ludicrous. Apr 01 18:53:01 <Steven_Zhang> probably gcos im doing abillion things with it eight not Apr 01 18:53:07 <Steven_Zhang> right now Apr 01 18:56:21 <jayvdb> peter-}, we tried to highlight that ;-) Apr 01 18:58:30 <-- caitcatt1 has quit () Apr 01 18:59:11 <-- Steven_Zhang has quit (Remote host closed the connection)