Meeting:Public (2012-05-06)/Log

Salient points from WMAU Public Meeting held on 06 May 2012

circa 11 visitors to the discussion

Topics covered

17:02 Welcome

17:04 Wikimania scholarships

17:11 inaugural Wikimedia Chapters Association meeting

17:29 Australian Opals training camp - WMAU attend

17:34 reporters on Wikinews needed

17:41 call for people interested in coverage of indigenous peoples on en.wikipedia

17:48 ADB scripting/scripting NZ historic places

17:58 script to make graphs of ABS data

Links

17:20 (Wikimania 2012/Chapter scholarships)

17:53 (en.wikipedia - Royal Bull's Head Inn)

17:58 (commons - Statistics of Australia)

Log

[17:00] -->| Graham87 (~BluFudge@210-079-021-092.dsl.sta.jazi.net) has joined #wikimedia-au
[17:00] Graham87 hi all
[17:00] LauraHale Hello
[17:00] Lankiveil hi Graham
[17:01] Lankiveil it's 5pm here, is everyone ready to start?
[17:01] Bidgee|Away Not 5PM yet
[17:02] LauraHale 5:02 here
[17:02] peter-} Yes it is.
[17:02] Bidgee|Away Odd, iPhone says 5:02 and the computer says 4:59
[17:02] Lankiveil okay, we can wait a couple of more minutes if people aren't ready, to see if John will manage to re-connect?
[17:02] Lankiveil its close enough
[17:02] Steven_Zhang Hey
[17:02] peter-} offers Bidgee|Away some NTP servers
[17:02] Steven_Zhang hi anne
[17:02] Lankiveil welcome to the public meeting everyone
[17:02] Steven_Zhang
[17:03] Steven_Zhang kinda forgot about the meeting and then remembered last minute
[17:03] Lankiveil I want to draw everyone's attention to the fact that this meeting will be LOGGED and the transcript will be published on the WMAU website
[17:03] Bidgee|Away Pity you can't underline in IRC!
[17:03] Lankiveil if you do not want your participation published, please leave the room now
[17:03] Lankiveil @Bidgee: Too bad there is no <blink> tag
[17:03] Steven_Zhang meh
[17:03] Steven_Zhang I normally just ramble
[17:04] Lankiveil the main thing that the committee wants to bring to everyone's attention is the second round of Wikimania scholarships
[17:04] u99of9 hello, is this the meeting?
[17:05] Bidgee|Away Yes
[17:05] Steven_Zhang yep
[17:05] Lankiveil @u99of9: yes
[17:05] Lankiveil the chapter had offered a number of scholarships to people to attend Wikimania in Washington DC
[17:06] Lankiveil after handing them out, some of the successful applicants received funding from other sources to attend, and thus we still have a bit of money left over
[17:06] u99of9 I was confused why you wanted to go over budget to offer more scholarships when you hadn't received enough applications to fund even the budgetted places?
[17:06] peter-} This channel is being LOGGED.
[17:06] Bidgee|Away Can't miss that!
[17:06] Lankiveil thanks Peter
[17:07] =-= Bidgee|Away is now known as Bidgee
[17:07] Lankiveil @u99of9: it's not huge wads of money, but if you're going anyway every little bit helps
[17:07] |<-- Bidgee has left freenode (Changing host)
[17:07] -->| Bidgee (BidgeeZzZ@wikimedia-commons/bidgee) has joined #wikimedia-au
[17:07] u99of9 sure, but what's the rationale for not sticking to budget? Has new information surfaced since the budget was agreed?
[17:08] peter-} Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a blink
[17:08] LauraHale There is a desire to best support our membership. This is an important way of doing it.
[17:09] Lankiveil the money that's gone back into the pool is only what we had already committed to spending anyway
[17:09] peter-} Bidgee: Actually, you can.
[17:09] Lankiveil now, if we get a really spectacular application then we might change the budget and fund it
[17:09] u99of9 given that the WMF no longer wants us to share the fundraiser, I'm guessing that money is going to be much tighter in the next few years than it is now...
[17:09] Lankiveil alternatively, if we don't have any good applications we won't necessarily hand out any of it
[17:10] LauraHale What Lankiveil is saying.
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[17:10] Bidgee isn't going. Too busy and would need a passport.
[17:10] -->| u99of9_ (~chatzilla@58-6-47-223.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #wikimedia-au
[17:10] Lankiveil It is likely that one of the two WMAU committee members will be doing stuff other than just Wikimania while they're over there, as well
[17:11] Bidgee wb u99of9
[17:11] Lankiveil namely, representing us at the inaugural WCA meeting
[17:11] peter-} Given WMF's change-of-mind, I agree the chapter needs to be more careful with funds.
[17:12] u99of9_ "currently costing the chapter a little over $14,000. While this is more than the $12,500 in the budget, the organisation has the funds..."
[17:12] Lankiveil nods
[17:12] Lankiveil so you'd like us to be pretty strict and put the bar fairly high, then?
[17:13] u99of9_ if you're already at $14k, which is already over budget, I'm not sure what the purpose of soliciting more applications is... was the budget amount set too low in the first place?
[17:13] Lankiveil yes, probably. It's the first year we've done a big scholarship programme for Wikimania
[17:14] Lankiveil as in, "yes, we probably set the budget too low"
[17:14] |<-- u99of9 has left freenode (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[17:14] peter-} That $12.5K was for 2 people, wasn't it?
[17:14] Lankiveil five people
[17:14] u99of9 how many years can the $14k be sustained without WMF fundraising?
[17:14] LauraHale There are some challenges for budgetting based on my understanding. It is really expensive for Australians to travel, and conflicting expectations that chapters with budgets will support many people.
[17:15] Lankiveil the majority of those going are not from Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane, so they have to do horrible doglegs on their travel which pushed the price up
[17:15] <--| rij has left #wikimedia-au ("Leaving")
[17:16] Lankiveil since Wikimania 2013 will be in a cheaper location for us (Hong Kong), that $12.5k will probably go a lot further
[17:16] peter-} 5 people seems a bit excessive. What benefit do we get for sending so many people?
[17:16] Bidgee is thinking about going to the WM in HK
[17:16] u99of9 ok, that's interesting Lankiveil, then let's prioritize getting lots of people to that... our dollars go further
[17:16] LauraHale I think in comparison, the Poms are funding 20?
[17:17] Lankiveil on the funding question, on my recent trip to Berlin, I spoke at length with Barry Newstead, head of WMF global development. Just because we're not in the fundraiser doesn't mean they're not willing to write us a big cheque for the upcoming financial year
[17:17] LauraHale Sue will be at a conference I am attending later this month.
[17:17] Lankiveil yeah, I had a look the other night and if you book in advance you can get to HK and back, from Brisbane, for about $1200, and I imagine it's largely the same for everyone except Perth.
[17:17] u99of9 How long in advance will they tell us the size of the cheque? Prudent budgeting is only really possible with long term information.
[17:17] peter-} But wu need to justify every ¢ instead of getting a proportion of Oz donations.
[17:18] Lankiveil peter: that's right
[17:18] Lankiveil u99of9, we tell them the size of the cheque, what we want to spend it on, and they say yes or no.
[17:18] Lankiveil the size of next year's Wikimania budget is obviously something to be worked out in advance of asking for that money
[17:19] peter-} Lankiveil: It's also when you want to travel as well as how far in advance you book.
[17:19] u99of9 lol, crazy. Oh well, if spending this year doesn't really affect next year's cash position... then spend away
[17:19] Lankiveil now that we have a bit more experience in how much the whole shebang will cost we will hopefully be able to make a more accurate forecast
[17:19] Lankiveil but yeah, HK is probably the best opportunity for Aussies to go to Wikimania for a few years so I'm hoping we'll be able to be quite generous
[17:20] LauraHale http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships#Chapter_Scholarships
[17:20] LauraHale Hong Kong is much more affordable.
[17:20] Lankiveil Hong Kong will be great
[17:20] Lankiveil the other bid (London) was also very fine, but Hong Kong will be better for us, given our location
[17:21] Lankiveil anyway, to respond to u99of9's last question, we still need to sit on that cash for anything that the WMF declines to fund, so we can't afford to waste it. But if a good application for a scholarship comes through and value will be delivered by approving it, then we wanted to leave that door open
[17:21] peter-} What benefits do the Chapter & attendees get from attending Wikimania?
[17:22] Lankiveil it seems that the mood in the room is to put that bar quite high, and I will certainly take that back to the committee
[17:22] LauraHale There are some chapter related meetings that go on at the time of Wikimania that are helpful for networking and development of programming.
[17:23] Lankiveil @peter: Apart from intangible benefits, all the scholarship applications that we approved involved more than just having a holiday in America, they proposed presenting or participating in presentations and the like and bringing whatever knowledge they gained back home with them
[17:23] LauraHale It is also an opportunity to promote successful programming and other activities being done nationally.
[17:23] peter-} OK. Thanks.
[17:23] Lankiveil if anyone had said "I wanna go to Washington to meet Jimmy" or similar, we'd have said no.
[17:24] LauraHale ^^ That.
[17:24] Lankiveil I'm sure that the successful applicants would be happy to discuss their plans, but as none of them are actually here I don't want to go into too much detail for privacy reasons
[17:24] peter-} I'd suggest the chapter look at maybe $10-12K from current funds but apply for a grant to spend (send) more.
[17:24] Lankiveil for next year?
[17:24] peter-} yes
[17:25] LauraHale We'll keep that in mind.
[17:25] Lankiveil ^^
[17:26] Lankiveil okay
[17:26] peter-} How long will it take WMF to process applications? Do we need to start years in advance of will they say yes or no in a month or so?
[17:26] u99of9 I have no doubt that it's a useful thing. And in a sense, if people are already willing to put up big bucks to go, we should help them. But in terms of encouraging more people to go, I'd say it's better to save that for Hong Kong where our dollars will be enough to provide a real incentive even for the cost-averse.
[17:26] LauraHale We like supporting members. (And if you have ideas you want to implement we can support and then go to Wikimania to brag about it, do let us know how we can help you.)
[17:27] Lankiveil @peter - I hope to have the request, budget, and work plan to them by 30 June. We are engaging consultants still to provide us with some advice on certain things so I can't say how much it'll be yet.
[17:27] u99of9 (peter-} as far as I understand it, we're already up to $14k... I don't think we should go back on what has been approved)
[17:27] Lankiveil That request will be for everything, not just our budget for sending people to Wikimania.
[17:28] peter-} u99of9: I was tasking about next year.
[17:28] u99of9 oh ok
[17:29] Lankiveil great
[17:29] Lankiveil I wanna throw to Laura now for another item
[17:29] Lankiveil if there are more money questions we can come back to them afterwards
[17:29] LauraHale Oh.
[17:29] LauraHale Yes. Me.
[17:29] LauraHale We've got media permission to attend the Australian Opals training camp.
[17:30] u99of9 wow cool, where abouts?
[17:30] LauraHale Myself and two Wikimedia Australia photographers will be going.
[17:30] LauraHale Australian Institute of Sport.
[17:30] peter-} That's great.
[17:30] LauraHale The training camp will last a week, from 14 to 18 May.
[17:30] u99of9 Good on you.
[17:30] LauraHale I do not think we'll be able to get a set of photos like we did with the softball team and the water polo team, but we should be able to get other pictures.
[17:31] LauraHale Our goal is to take every opals squad member to DYK, upload at least 50 pictures and write 4 to 8 Wikinews stories.
[17:31] LauraHale While there, we may also be given an opprtunity to take pictures of and report on either the national cyclign team or the swimming team... but we are waiting on that.
[17:32] LauraHale The schedule for media access won't be available until later this week so not sure on the details.
[17:32] u99of9 are these the teams that have already been selected for the Olympics?
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[17:32] LauraHale It is great opprtunity given the profile of the team internationally and making it easier for us to get media credentials to get members into other sprots.
[17:32] LauraHale The Opals are being narrowed.
[17:33] LauraHale The swimming people are Olympians yes. When I was talking to them, they were working on chosing people for the men's swimming relay.
[17:33] LauraHale The cycling people would be keen to do stuff with us, and if I pressed, I could probably get Anna Meares related content.
[17:34] LauraHale What we really need are MORE reporters on Wikinews. We need photographers who have the Wikinews accreditation so we can tell them we have credentialed reporters. It makes it a lot easier to sell.
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[17:37] LauraHale We want more options.We love bidgee but we'd love to have more photographers we can chose from who we can provide a portfolio of work from to demonstrate why we should be having them on board.
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[17:38] Lankiveil cool
[17:38] LauraHale More reporters would also be useful.
[17:38] Lankiveil any questions on that?
[17:38] LauraHale Yes. Tired of my own "voice".
[17:39] LauraHale Any questions?
[17:39] Lankiveil hehe
[17:39] Lankiveil or any questions generally?
[17:39] LauraHale Anything anyone wants to know?
[17:40] LauraHale This meeting looks to be headed to an early close.
[17:40] LauraHale Speak up.
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[17:40] stuartyeates before we go, i have a short point
[17:41] LauraHale Hello jayvdb
[17:41] Lankiveil sure
[17:41] Lankiveil and hi John
[17:41] stuartyeates I've been doing heaps more work on the coverage of Māori in en.wikipedia, and I'm still looking for people interested in doing
[17:41] stuartyeates work on Indigenous Australians
[17:41] Graham87 hi John
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[17:42] LauraHale doesn't know many Australians working in that area. : /
[17:42] stuartyeates it's not really something I can drive, but I've got time to support someone else, if they have the skills and knowledge, based on my Māori work
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[17:43] LauraHale Did you need any grant support or any training support to help you locally?
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[17:43] stuartyeates if anyone does know of any people in that area, I'd love to be put in touch
[17:43] LauraHale Hello Chriswaterguy
[17:43] peter-} Given the new participants... Please note this channel is being LOGGED and the logs will be published.
[17:43] stuartyeates not really, thanks LauraHale
[17:43] Lankiveil unfortunately I don't think the chapter has any contacts in that field
[17:43] Graham87 I encountered an expert in Aboriginal linguistics on my watchlist once ... tried to contact him but got no response
[17:44] Graham87 up in the Crocodile Islands
[17:44] stuartyeates also, in case people weren't aware, some of the active contributors to our Māori content are actually based in Australia
[17:44] Lankiveil personally, as a whitefella, I'm sort of reluctant to stick my fingers in that pot for fear of causing offense
[17:44] LauraHale Huh.
[17:44] Lankiveil ah, now I was not aware of that
[17:44] Graham87 that's interesting!
[17:44] peter-} I might have some contacts and will do some checking.
[17:44] LauraHale I've done some work there but it tends to be accidental as they play sport.
[17:45] LauraHale does have a reference book on Aboriginals in sport.
[17:45] LauraHale I know who I could contact in Canberra but I don't have the time to try to develop relationships there.
[17:46] stuartyeates ok, thats all i have
[17:46] LauraHale
[17:47] u99of9 sorry, I had to go and hang the washing. I'm happy to work towards wikinews credentials.
[17:47] Lankiveil actually, I know that User:MichelleG is interested in indigenous languages generally and has wanted to start something, you might want to get in touch with her if languages are your thing?
[17:47] stuartyeates Lankiveil: thanks, I'll look into that
[17:48] LauraHale u99of9: That would be very useful in terms of having another person we could easily tap if something happens.
[17:48] u99of9 stuartyeates, thanks for the ADB scripting you've been doing, I think pursuing that would be very helpful too
[17:50] stuartyeates u99of9: I've actually suspended that, since I've been doing lots of Māori stuff, but I can work on bringing it forward
[17:51] stuartyeates u99of9: I've also had some support for scripting NZ historic places, using a similar script
[17:52] p858snake|l jayvdb: on that pub/inn article, are those plain text number brackets ment to refer to the further reading list, or the cite list?
[17:52] Lankiveil the cite list
[17:52] Lankiveil I will hopefully get around to fixing that tonight
[17:53] Lankiveil you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Bull%27s_Head_Inn right?
[17:53] p858snake|l what is the second cite then, since that appears to be missing
[17:53] p858snake|l Lankiveil: yes
[17:53] Lankiveil ah sorry, the further reading list
[17:53] Lankiveil I need to convert those first two items to refs
[17:54] LauraHale If it completely supported by inline citations, I'm happy to nominate for DYK
[17:55] jayvdb the fact that the first CoE thingo was in a inn is DYK material
[17:55] Lankiveil the "Restoration" section needs referencing
[17:55] LauraHale If some one can get it completely supported with inline sources, I will nominate it.
[17:56] Lankiveil I don't actually have that further reading handy, largely AGF and based on correspondence with the original author
[17:56] Lankiveil on that note, I need to get going, but thanks all for showing up
[17:56] jayvdb Lankiveil: scans?
[17:56] stuartyeates I've applied for toolserver access, based on a trivial script for rescuing orphaned articles. it's been suggested that my application will be accepted as soon as it get to the front of the queue
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[17:56] jayvdb im about to fall offline again
[17:56] =-= Lankiveil is now known as Lankiveil|away
[17:57] Lankiveil|away another tunnel?
[17:57] jayvdb back in ~30 mins
[17:57] jayvdb dead spots in outback coverage
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[17:58] =-= u99of9_ is now known as u99of9
[17:58] u99of9 in case anyone is interested in writing about economics of australia, i've got a new script to make graphs of ABS data: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Statistics_of_Australia
[17:58] LauraHale Cool beans,
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[17:59] Steven_Zhang what'd i miss?
[17:59] Steven_Zhang oh everything
[17:59] Steven_Zhang bumer
[17:59] u99of9 so far a breakdown of the current account deficit, and international traveller stats
[17:59] Steven_Zhang are we in defecit?
[18:00] u99of9 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AustralianCurrentAccount-total.svg
[18:00] u99of9 yes but its getting better
[18:00] stuartyeates u99of9: that's nice. i notice that the graphs aren't dated, is the plan to update them annual so they always show the current stats?
[18:01] Steven_Zhang wait is that us
[18:01] u99of9 goods are in surplus http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AustralianCurrentAccount-goods.svg
[18:01] Steven_Zhang or austraia
[18:01] Steven_Zhang we aren't in defecit are we? as in, WMAU
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[18:02] u99of9 yes stuartyeates, if i run the same script again, it updates the graph... then i just need a bot to reuplod them all
[18:02] stuartyeates u99of9: quite a few of the graphs have an unlabelled vertical axis, is that deliberate?
[18:03] u99of9 all are unlabelled, so that other languages can reuse
[18:03] stuartyeates nod
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[18:03] stuartyeates do languages that use non-arabic numerical system use arabic for finance?
[18:04] u99of9 but i should be writing complete description fields
[18:04] u99of9 at the moment some of the key info is only in the filename!
[18:04] stuartyeates what are you using to generate your graphs?
[18:04] u99of9 gnuplot
[18:05] stuartyeates i used that a great deal in my thesis
[18:06] u99of9 i usually use something else, but this seemed best for script integration
[18:06] stuartyeates yes, it is very scriptable
[18:08] LauraHale Did we end the meeting?
[18:09] stuartyeates LauraHale: no, but we probably should
[18:10] LauraHale Any objections to concluding it?
[18:10] LauraHale And thus ending officiall public logging?
[18:12] LauraHale formally concludes this public meeting.