Meeting:Public (2012-09-02)/Log

Timestamps are WIB timezone. Feel free to replace it with another log, but be sure to strip out personal information (i.e. location details) from join/part log entries.

14:00 <Bduke> Hi everyone
14:00 -!- Graham87 has joined #wikimedia-au
14:00 <Graham87> hi all
14:03 <jayvdb> any topic suggestions for public discussion?
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14:04 <jayvdb> as an fyi, I will be in Singapore next week, and a small meetup is happening https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Singapore_6 
14:05 <jayvdb> four people confirm on wiki, and one confirmed offwiki.
14:05 <Chriswaterguy> howdy john, howdy all. Almost forgot today... but didn't.
14:06 <u99of9> I've heard some complaints about use of this IRC channel.
14:06 <u99of9> Perhaps that could be discussed?
14:06 <jayvdb> yea, good idea
14:06 <jayvdb> Craig started a proposal on the wiki
14:06 <jayvdb> Lankiveil: ping
14:07 <u99of9> oh, I missed that
14:08 <u99of9> link?
14:09 <jayvdb> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Lankiveil/Draft:_IRC_Guidelines 
14:11 <Bduke> Seems OK to me, but what were the complaints?
14:11 <russavia> don't get into it bduke ;)
14:11 <russavia> sum things are best left unsaid
14:12 <jayvdb> Laura and Bidgee no longer want to be on this channel while a non-Australian was allowed here
14:12 <Bduke> OK
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14:13 <u99of9> I'd strengthen the "no need for private logging",
14:13 <u99of9> to "no private logging"
14:14 <u99of9> Also please explain somewhere who "the management committee" is
14:14 <jayvdb> they objected because they saw this persons discussion here as non-productive at best, an annoying at times
14:14 <jayvdb> "committee of management" is the WMAU committee.  That could be what is referred to
14:15 <russavia> and who are the system admins who are logging?
14:15 <jayvdb> IMO .. WMAU doesnt manage this channel, just like the WMF doesnt manage the 'wikipedia-en' channel.
14:15 <peter-}> My client logs by default and I haven't disabled it for this channel.
14:15 <u99of9> the "no need for private logging" sounds like logs are made available if someone wants them... but that shouldn't be the case
14:17 <russavia> like me peter-}
14:17 <jayvdb> However the channel operators listed at http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/IRC are mostly not present 
14:19 <russavia> could i direct people to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Equipment_exchange -- if anyone has any unused cameras that they are willing to donate (or sell, whatever), this could be handy 
14:20 <russavia> and if anyone has a camera they are willing to donate, i have a person in uzbekistan and in cambodia would be willingly use it for taking photos
14:21 <peter-}> And jayvdb's link doesn't include any way to quickly/easily contact them.
14:22 <jayvdb> russavia: have you looked a postal costs involved?  it may be cheaper to send them money... ?
14:22 <russavia> not sure about all of that
14:23 <russavia> i'd recommend that they upload Aussie photos to commons and take advantage of our grants
14:23 <russavia> *I could recommend
14:23 <russavia> kogan has some great deals on cams recently too
14:24 <jayvdb> That would be a good solution.  The program was written so that people overseas could at least get the kickstart support
14:24 <peter-}> You'd need to investigate the Customs implications for the recipients as well.
14:25 <russavia> indeed
14:25 <russavia> uzbekistan wouldn't be a problem....i could get aircrew to take it ;)
14:28 <u99of9> If WMAU doesn't manage the channel, who does?
14:29 <Graham87> Freenod? it's group contacts for the WMF? dunno
14:29 <Graham87> Freenode* :-)
14:29 <jayvdb> so regarding IRC, WMAU hasnt yet assumed the role of managing this channel, but there are rarely disputes so there hasnt been much need for dispute resolution.  WMAU does have a role in dispute resolution between members of WMAU (as per the Rules)  I think we need the active community on IRC to either take over the channel operations, or give WMAU the authority to make decisions regarding conflicts that happen here
14:30 <jayvdb> u99of9: the channel operators are the ones with permissions to remove people temporarily or permanently.
14:30 <jayvdb> and the channel operators have been community members, and the global contacts.
14:31 <jayvdb> e.g. Barras is one of the channel ops, but he is more of a 'steward' role - removing blatant problems, as opposed to getting involved in disputes
14:31 <peter-}> The channel title implies it is linked to WMAU and users could have a reasonable expectation that it's managed by the WMAU Committee.
14:32 <u99of9> I think it's reasonable for WMAU to appoint/authorize the channel operators
14:32 <u99of9> and thus set some kinds of terms
14:33 <peter-}> There's no obvious link between Barras and the list at http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/IRC 
14:35 <Chriswaterguy> Does WMAU want to have authority over the list? Are there downsides - e.g. if someone feels harrassed/stalked/whatever, will they blame WMAU?
14:36 <jayvdb> peter-}: the 'group contacts' link was broken. I've updated it to link to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts 
14:36 <jayvdb> Chriswaterguy: we have not assumed any management or responsibility over the 'wikimediaau-l' list.  We are the managers of the private members@wikimedia.org.au list
14:39 <Chriswaterguy> jayvdb: cool, makes sense. I meant to say "channel" rather than list, but similar issues apply.
14:43 <jayvdb> If WMAU does assume some responsibility over the channel, the committee can delegate that to a group of community members.  We did that for the WMAU wiki.  http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Non-member_participation 
14:46 <jayvdb> I think the committee has better things to be doing rather than dispute resolution, especially disputes between non-members and members.
14:49 <Chriswaterguy> jayvdb: agreed.
14:49 <Chriswaterguy> I worry a little about the WMAU getting drawn into such things, if it has authority over the list in any way.
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14:50 <peter-}> I'd like to see the committeee officially delegate it.
14:50 <Chriswaterguy> maybe the scope can be defined very clearly.
14:50 <JJHarrison> (On a computer now, have read through the above)
14:51 <JJHarrison> russavia: Will keep the equiment exchange thing in mind in the future. Often I sell things to fund new purchases though. 
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14:52 <JJHarrison> As far as the IRC thing goes, I don't really care who is here personally. I haven't heard any arguments against it. 
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14:54 <JJHarrison> I wouldn't want to stop potentially new WMAU members.
14:54 <jayvdb> If WMAU is to be officially responsible for this channel, I would like WMAU to ask the Australian community (members and non-members) for feedback.  We should start a Proposal: , where non-members can provide feedback on the Proposal talk: page and on the public mailing lists.
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14:55 <u99of9> I agree channel responsibility should be delegated from the committee.
14:55 <u99of9> wider discussion on the actual rules sounds fine
14:55 <u99of9> I don't think extensive rules should be necessary
14:55 <jayvdb> if there are no objections after a month, we can assume that anyone with an interest in the IRC channel has agreed that WMAU should take responsibility for the channel
14:55 <Chriswaterguy> I'm thinking: have responsibility for it in the way that the WMF has responsibility for Wikipedia. Not taking responsibility for specific content.  Minimal intervention, to keep the community on track t avoid problems.
15:00 <jayvdb> I think we have covered that topic.  action is to write a proposal for WMAU responsibility of the channel, and let the broader community comment on it.
15:02 <jayvdb> any other issues?  sorry that the last minutes are not out yet, but we have released two prior minutes
15:02 <JJHarrison> Just as a general note I think we are expending seven at a Wikip(m)edia Meetup in Hobart next weekend. Including Attila J. Ürményházi, who wrote a book about the The Hungarian Revolution-Uprising, among other things.
15:02 <jayvdb> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Meeting:Committee_%282012-04-15%29 
15:03 <jayvdb> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Meeting:Committee_%282012-06-17%29 
15:03 <jayvdb> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/w/index.php?title=Meeting:Committee_%282012-07-31%29 
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15:04 <JJHarrison> What is the best way to sign people up to Wikimedia Australia at a physical meeting?
15:04 <JJHarrison> Most of the people expected are not members, and one or two would probably join.
15:04 <jayvdb> JJHarrison: will you have internet access?  is the webform signup suitable?
15:04 <SteveMobile> Is this finnished or did I miss it all?
15:05 <JJHarrison> Maybe I can get Charles Gregory to bring a laptop if he has one, and then use my phone for internet. 
15:05 <jayvdb> We have used a paperform at some events
15:06 <jayvdb> e.g. Liam had a paper form at the GLAM-WIKI event
15:06 <jayvdb> (i think)
15:06 <JJHarrison> Is that availible to download from somewhere?
15:08 <SteveMobile> For the record
15:08 <SteveMobile> In reference to the minutes to the committee meeting for July
15:09 <SteveMobile> I think the move to prohibit the inclusion of wikimedia australia in the melbourne meetups is a bit bureaucratic.
15:11 <jayvdb> http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Membership/handout 
15:11 <jayvdb> That handout could be out of date due to rule changes - it reviewing it now
15:13 <Bduke> Has the committee appointed a returning Officer yet?
15:14 <jayvdb> that handout looks ok.  I dont know why it links to the Rules on meta, as opposed to our local copy, however they are both the same text
15:15 <SteveMobile> Btw where is Anne?
15:15 <Graham87> she's having computer troubles
15:17 <SteveMobile> I see.
15:21 <jayvdb> Brian, we havent officially done that.
15:22 <jayvdb> however you've been named as returning officer on the draft AGM page http://www.wikimedia.org.au//wiki/Meeting:2012_AGM 
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15:24 <russavia> u99of9 you seen the god's work DR?
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15:25 <Bduke> Has a date for the AGM been fixed? I will be overseas October 17 to November 15. That may cause problems.
15:26 <jayvdb> hi hack404. this is the Wikimedia Australia public meeting.  the log will be published on our wiki.
15:27 <hack404> Hey jayvdb, thanks
15:27 <jayvdb> Bduke: no.  We've finished the audit of 2010-11, and about to start on 2011-12
15:28 <jayvdb> I asked the members whether they want the audit finished before the AGM, as that will cause the AGM date to be later
15:29 <Bduke> I can not be RO if you hold it while I am overseas.
15:29 <jayvdb> It would be good if members comment re the 2011-12 audit at http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Meeting_talk:2012_AGM 
15:30 <jayvdb> or comment here & now ;-)
15:33 <Bduke> Audit. I think CAV insists now because our revenue is much larger. 
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15:34 <Bduke> I suggets you go for the last Sunday in Novemember, but make sure you get it right.
15:34 <Graham87> that'll be the 25th
15:38 <jayvdb> Any objections to the 25th?
15:38 <Lankiveil> ho ho, I over slept :(
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15:40 <u99of9> sorry russavia, just getting the kids through bedtime routine, back later
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15:48 <jayvdb> I think you are right Brian.  We are a 'prescribed organisation'? https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Associations_Incorporation_Act_1981_%28Victoria%29/Part_I#prescribed_association 
15:49 <jayvdb> Lankiveil: do we meet any of those conditions?
15:50 <Lankiveil> we are not (a) or (b) this year
15:50 <Lankiveil> I'm pretty sure not (c), but I'll have to check
15:51 <jayvdb> nod.  That would be good to check.
15:51 <Lankiveil> however, we still have an approved fundraising permission so I think we should do it anyway
15:51 <Lankiveil> I believe the NSW authorities will want to see it regardless
15:51 <jayvdb> Also, are we required to have audited fin statement for FDC eligibility .. in October ?
15:52 <Lankiveil> aye
15:52 <Lankiveil> I don't think it needs to be audited for FDC, but it does need to be prepared and public
15:52 <Bduke> Not sure about NSW. They do insist on an auditor, but not I think on an audit, although I think they can ask for one.
15:56 <peter-}> What's the point of an auditor who doesn't audit?
15:57 <Lankiveil> I think the idea is that any organisation who has gone to the trouble of getting an auditor is probably better run than one who hasn't ;-)
15:58 <Bduke> I do not know really, but we always had to have one when we applied for fundraising approval in NSW, but we did not have an audit back then
16:10 <jayvdb> ok, well if there are more thoughts about audits and AGM date, please comment on the meeting talk page
16:11 <Bduke> I am going to have to leave now. John, I will email you tomorrow re AGM and elections.
16:11 <jayvdb> the committee will discuss it at the next ctte meeting in two weeks
16:11 <Bduke> OK
16:12 <jayvdb> we'll close the meeting log now.
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