Meeting:Public (2013-04-14)/Transcript

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[20:02] <Lankiveil> it's 8:02pm by my clock, so are we ready to begin?
[20:03] <Steven_Zhang> i guess/
[20:03] <Lankiveil> alright
[20:04] <Lankiveil> just to remind everyone, the chat logs of these meetings are posted on the public website, so anyone who does not want to appear in the log should leave now
[20:04] <samwilson> Hullo from WA.
[20:05] <Lankiveil> Hi Sam :-)
[20:05] <TonySouter> Hi Sam, hi Craig
[20:05] <Lankiveil> and hi Tony!
[20:05] <gnangarra> hi sam
[20:05] <Bidgee> Hi Sam
[20:05] <Lankiveil> okay, well, I guess I shall start with a brief recap of what the committee was up to last weekend in Sydney
[20:06] <TonySouter> I'd like to kick off by saying that John V's draft page for managing the hiring of specific contract labour to achieve some of our urgent goals ... looks really good.
[20:06] <TonySouter> sorry, e.c.
[20:06] <Lankiveil> thats fine, I'll put that down as item #2 to discuss Tony
[20:06] <Steven_Zhang> you can't edit conflict in IRC :)
[20:06] <Lankiveil> lol
[20:07] <Steven_Zhang> Anyways.
[20:07] <Lankiveil> as members might be aware, the committee was in Sydney last weekend to discuss strategy and hopefully meet with the community
[20:07] <Lankiveil> neither of the observers were able to make it unfortunately, so it was myself, John, Graham, Kerry and Steve Z.
[20:07] <Steven_Zhang> there's another Steve?
[20:08] <Lankiveil> the reason we chose that particular weekend was that John and Kerry were already in town for the Wikipedia in Education symposium hosted at USyd
[20:08] * Steven_Zhang always wonders why he is referred to as Steve Z when there are no other steves on comm, or afaik in WMAU :P
[20:08] <Lankiveil> @Steven_Zhang: There used to be Steve Peters, former president :)
[20:08] <gnangarra> use to be another steve, you dont want to be confused
[20:08] <Steven_Zhang> the key word being former :)
[20:08] <TonySouter> so what are the prospects of getting an education program happening in Austr.?
[20:08] <Steven_Zhang> Apologies all, I'm not feeling very well this evening.
[20:09] <Lankiveil> Things look very positive
[20:09] <Lankiveil> I'll state here that I wasn't able to attend myself after I was told at effectively the last minute I was required at my day job in Brisbane on that day
[20:09] <TonySouter> we're talking tertiary, not secondary, yes?
[20:09] <Lankiveil> tertiary, yes
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[20:10] <Lankiveil> the main illuminating finding though was that there is a lot of tertiary courses already using Wikipedia that we didn't previously know about
[20:10] * peej ( has joined #wikimedia-au
[20:10] * Bidgee (~Bidgee@wikimedia-commons/bidgee) has joined #wikimedia-au
[20:10] <TonySouter> officially using WP, or the students just use it as a crutch?
[20:10] <Steven_Zhang> wb Bidgee 
[20:10] <Lankiveil> hehe
[20:11] * peej is now known as Guest66198
[20:11] <Bidgee> thanks
[20:11] <Lankiveil> the sort where they're assigned assessment tasks that involve editing or using Wikimedia projects
[20:11] <Lankiveil> not the sort where they crib text from WP for their papers :)
[20:11] <TonySouter> I wonder whether a dedicated page might be started on the chapter's site, perhaps to list the courses/institutions where this is happening?
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[20:12] <Lankiveil> not a bad idea
[20:12] <TonySouter> How hard to know what's happening where, though?
[20:12] <Lankiveil> I figure there has to be somewhere on Outreach where all these courses are listed, not just the ones in Australia
[20:12] <Lankiveil> a lot of them seem to be one-offs
[20:13] <Lankiveil> or not part of the "official" curriculums
[20:13] <Lankiveil> advanced readings subjects and whatnot
[20:13] <TonySouter> I suspect many don't list themselves there; but it would be a good start
[20:13] <Lankiveil> probably not
[20:14] <TonySouter> How much of it is about building personal contacts between WMAU and academics?
[20:14] <Lankiveil> a lot of them didn't seem to be aware of each other, they just developed their own coursework and ran with it
[20:14] <gnangarra> Outreach is poorly advertised many people dont know about or monitor it, having australian stuff on the au wiki would be as effective
[20:14] <Lankiveil> the fact that generally speaking it's worked well and hasn't generated controversy and problems on enwp is a good sign that these programs are well thought out
[20:14] <TonySouter> Do they use the resources supplied on WMF sites? In particular, I'm thinking of the one that our Whiteghost had a large hand in producing
[20:15] <Lankiveil> I'm afraid that gets a bit beyond the briefing I got from John and Kerry, but I can certainly take that question on notice
[20:15] <Guest66198> Prolly not.
[20:16] <TonySouter> My feeling is that educational programs around the world are very much a work in progress, and range from the appallingly bad to the pretty good
[20:16] <Lankiveil> as I said, it's not even across everyone.  Some may have, some may not have.  If they did, they'd probably not be working in total isolation though.
[20:16] <Steven_Zhang> most appallingly bad.
[20:16] <Lankiveil> Yes, if we do an education programme here in Australia, it'll be better than the disaster that happened in India
[20:16] <TonySouter> Smart move by the Foundation to mostly withdraw from it
[20:16] <Lankiveil> aye
[20:16] <Guest66198> What went wrong in India?
[20:16] <Lankiveil> there was a lot of lessons learned from that.  I don't know about the Foundation, but we'll certainly take that into account with whatever happens here.
[20:17] <TonySouter> total disorganisation
[20:17] <TonySouter> lots of griping, unsurprisingly
[20:17] <TonySouter> bad press for the movement; and millions of dollars flushed down the pan
[20:17] <Lankiveil> @Guest66198: Lots of problems, but I think basically trying to reach too many students who didn't want to do it, using Wikipedia experts that didn't understand Wikipedia
[20:17] <Guest66198> From where? (The dollars)
[20:18] <Lankiveil> there is an excellent postmortem that a consultant did on the whole fiasco on Meta somewhere
[20:18] <TonySouter> oh, you can make *every* tertiary student want to do it; but it's a complex and subtle thing
[20:19] * Hawkeye7 (~Hawkeye7@wikipedia/hawkeye7) has joined #wikimedia-au
[20:19] <Lankiveil> aye.  Just expecting 600 students to show up and do it with very little guidance resulted in, as you said, chaos
[20:20] <Hawkeye7> Hi everyone!
[20:20] <Steven_Zhang> evening
[20:20] <Guest66198> Hellooooooo
[20:20] <Lankiveil> hi Hawkeye :)
[20:20] <TonySouter> I see edu programs put forward for foundation funding at the GAC; but usually they don't seem to have a clue
[20:20] <Guest66198> What's the gac?
[20:20] <TonySouter> the applicants, I mean
[20:20] <Steven_Zhang> grants advisory committee
[20:20] <Guest66198> At
[20:20] <Hawkeye7> Stevan Zhang!
[20:20] <Lankiveil> I don't think anyone really knows how to do it effectively and have surefire success
[20:20] <Steven_Zhang> WMF body that gives out money
[20:20] <TonySouter> Craig and I are members
[20:20] <Guest66198> Oops - at
[20:20] <Steven_Zhang> *Steven
[20:21] <Steven_Zhang> wait, you are, Craig?
[20:21] <Lankiveil> anyway, the notes from the conference are here:
[20:21] <Guest66198> Argh - that was ta - thanks...
[20:21] <Lankiveil> erm wait, no
[20:21] <Lankiveil> they are here:
[20:21] * Steven_Zhang is a member of the IEG committee
[20:21] <Guest66198> Was anyone else ther?
[20:21] <Guest66198> I was :)
[20:21] <TonySouter> I covered the Cairo tertiary edu program on the Signpost; seemed .... ok ... but it was hard to tell
[20:21] <Lankiveil> the first link is a lovely panorama photo of the attendees when they got evacuated in a fire drill
[20:21] Guest66198 is * Colloquy User
[20:21] Guest66198 on #wikimedia-au 
[20:21] Guest66198 using Manchester, England
[20:21] <Steven_Zhang> heh
[20:22] <Lankiveil> John, for those that don't know, is the fellow in the lovely shirt on the left :)
[20:22] <Steven_Zhang> heh
[20:22] <TonySouter> I see too much emphasis on *creating* articles in tutorials; and not enough on using existing articles as a foundation for conveying to students what we editors almost entirly do: improve articles
[20:22] <Steven_Zhang> ja
[20:23] <Lankiveil> yes.  The focus on creating is, I suspect, that it's easy to measure success of article-creating tutorials by counting the number of new articles
[20:23] <Lankiveil> measuring improvements is a lot harder, which is why a lot of the outreach doesn't focus on that
[20:24] <Lankiveil> creating new articles is also a better sell to potential new members as well.  "Write your own article!" plays better than "Fix up someone else's article!"
[20:24] <Hawkeye7> Creating the articles properly in the first place
[20:24] <Steven_Zhang>  measuring failer is easy though.
[20:24] <TonySouter> Yeah, but there's a lot of paraphernalia in creating; and many WPs have quite enough articles already—and a surfeit of crappy articles
[20:24] <Steven_Zhang> failure.
[20:24] <Lankiveil> I agree
[20:24] <caitcatt1> There's an article in the latest New Scientist about the conservatism of Wikipedia, and how people get very annoyed when their edits are removed for no good reason by silly editors.
[20:24] <Guest66198> it's a good thing to create a good new article though no?
[20:24] <Guest66198> And probably easier than improving an existing one?
[20:24] <Steven_Zhang> nope
[20:25] <Guest66198> the uq experience seemed to show that?
[20:25] <Lankiveil> there's still lots of articles that haven't been written that we need
[20:25] <TonySouter> perhaps it's a good thing; but in terms of inducting newcomers, I think it shouldn't be the theme
[20:25] <Steven_Zhang> ive tried starting an article from scratch
[20:25] <Steven_Zhang> not my forte
[20:25] <Guest66198> Well maybe the goal isn't to induct, but just to improve the pedia
[20:25] <TonySouter> en.WP has far too many stubs ... several million, I think.
[20:25] <Hawkeye7> It's often easier to create one from scratch
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[20:25] <Lankiveil> well, different people are motivated in different ways, and different tasks will appeal to different people
[20:25] <Lankiveil> Hi Graham!
[20:25] <TonySouter> it's both, I think: to induct and from there to improve the project
[20:25] <Graham87> hi all
[20:26] <Hawkeye7> Hi Graham
[20:26] <gnangarra> hi
[20:26] <Guest66198> Well I think inducting is far harder for many reasons...
[20:26] <Lankiveil> I know that in my sphere, local history, creating a new article is pretty easy because the only other editor who generally edits on the same topics is Kerry Raymond ;)
[20:26] <caitcatt1> My own experience has not been very good. I've been bulllied a lot by certain editors I won't name.
[20:26] <Guest66198> it happens, cait
[20:26] <Guest66198> Bad luck
[20:26] <TonySouter> bullied about what aspects?
[20:26] <Steven_Zhang> X is a village in the province of Y
[20:27] <Guest66198> (As in, I hope it wasn't too bad)
[20:27] <Steven_Zhang> is about 20% of our articles
[20:27] <Lankiveil> anyway, we've almost used up half our time, can I talk about some other topics and come back to this later if there's time? 
[20:27] <caitcatt1> I edited on the school I used to attend. A deputy principal at that school thinks he's Mr Wikipedia. He has said some very nasty things about me.
[20:28] <Graham87> Almost half? isn't it almost a quarter?
[20:28] <TonySouter> I hope this meeting is an hour, not two hours
[20:28] <Steven_Zhang> i can't be here for 2 hrs
[20:28] <Steven_Zhang> not at this time of the night.
[20:28] <Graham87> so do I TBH ... but they're normally two hours aren't they?
[20:28] <Lankiveil> officially an hour.  I'll stick around longer if people want to talk longer though.
[20:28] <TonySouter> Craig, over to you if you wanna move to a new theme???
[20:28] <Guest66198> I can't be here at all.
[20:28] <Graham87> ah ok
[20:28] <Steven_Zhang> WMF office hours are for an hour
[20:29] <Graham87> fine with me, especially due to the time change
[20:29] <Lankiveil> okay
[20:29] <Lankiveil> contracting!
[20:29] <Lankiveil>
[20:29] <Guest66198> I think we should talk more about h long this meeting is ;)
[20:29] <Steven_Zhang> which is odd because they're called "office hours" not "office hour" :P
[20:29] <Lankiveil> Basically, this is a proposal to form a contracting subcommittee to coordinate speding on admin items
[20:29] <TonySouter> I think an hour is good, but if people wanna hang around more, fine.
[20:29] <TonySouter> very good work by John V
[20:29] <TonySouter> IMO
[20:29] <Lankiveil> its pretty dry, but it's important because it basically covers how donor money will be spent
[20:29] * Bidgee has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:29] <Steven_Zhang> hear hear
[20:30] <TonySouter> does the committee feel good about this draft page?
[20:30] * Bidgee (~Bidgee@wikimedia-commons/bidgee) has joined #wikimedia-au
[20:30] <Lankiveil> I'll note that this has been raised on the members list previously, but we got some feedback and John and I rewrote it based on that feedback
[20:30] <Steven_Zhang> its fine with me.
[20:30] <Graham87> sounds good to me
[20:30] <Guest66198> Could you give a quick example of some work which would flow through this process?
[20:31] <Lankiveil> sure
[20:31] <Hawkeye7> Bidge!!!
[20:31] <TonySouter> well, over the next few months I guess the financial position will become clearer: then the committee might be in a position to form this subcommittee and start hiring?
[20:32] <Lankiveil> Two ideas that immediately pop to mind are getting someone who knows about HR and "hiring people" to do the necessary paperwork and advise the committee on how to start hiring staff
[20:32] <Guest66198> Well sure, but to do what? :)
[20:32] <TonySouter> hiring someone to hire?
[20:32] <Lankiveil> the other one was to get a techie person to upgrade the wiki install and upgrade the mailing list software, which desperately needs it imho
[20:33] <TonySouter> I'm inclined to get together a list of tasks that need doing, and a possible list of candidates. The committee itself can probably do the initial work
[20:33] <Guest66198> hmmmm... ok, but that's actually pretty small fry, no?
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[20:33] <Lankiveil> @TonySouter: Just a short-term contract to look at issues like payroll tax, workers compo insurance, etc.  
[20:33] <Steven_Zhang> TonySouter: the committee is spread pretty thin ATM.
[20:33] <Guest66198> I was more after an indication as to why a process is a better idea than just a chat?
[20:33] * Bidgee (~Bidgee@wikimedia-commons/bidgee) has joined #wikimedia-au
[20:33] <TonySouter> a process?
[20:34] <Lankiveil> basically, so that the committee can get out of the business of micromanaging spending and get people with experience in the field to look at it
[20:34] <Steven_Zhang> ^
[20:34] <TonySouter> I think the committee should consider getting a task-list together at its next meeting, and putting this to the membership via the mailing list
[20:34] <TonySouter> hiring will be the turning point for WMAU
[20:35] <Lankiveil> the contracting proposal is just the first step, the ctte would still have to decide on what to actually put through the subcommittee and of course members would be involved in that :)
[20:35] <TonySouter> and whoever came up with the idea of micro-hiring, for specific tasks, specific skills, should be complimented
[20:35] <Steven_Zhang> we did at the January meeting :-)
[20:35] <Lankiveil> It's actually based on something they're doing at WMID, modified quite a bit to suit normal business practices in Australia
[20:35] <TonySouter> Prep for WLM is, to me, one priority.
[20:36] <Guest66198> What's wmid?
[20:36] <Steven_Zhang> wikimedia indonesia
[20:36] <Lankiveil> sorry, Wikimedia Indonesia
[20:36] <Guest66198> ta :)
[20:36] * Steven_Zhang is designated acronym explainer for this meeting :-)
[20:36] <Lankiveil> hehe
[20:37] <Guest66198> well in that spirit, what's wlm?
[20:37] <Guest66198> :)
[20:37] <TonySouter> Wiki Loves Monuments
[20:37] <Steven_Zhang> wiki loves monumnets
[20:37] <Steven_Zhang> bah
[20:37] <Lankiveil> okay, action note for the ctte then: at the next meeting put together a list of tasks that could be contracted out through this process, and submit to membership for comment
[20:37] <TonySouter> a photographic competition, worldwide
[20:37] <TonySouter> held every October
[20:37] <Guest66198> gotcha!
[20:37] <TonySouter> it's very disappointing that we won't even join it this year
[20:38] <Lankiveil> do we want to move onto talking about WLM, or did anyone have any further comment on the contracting proposal?
[20:38] <TonySouter> a lot of grunt work necessary first, to determine what are (legally) classified as monuments
[20:39] <Lankiveil> no?
[20:39] <Lankiveil> ok
[20:39] <Lankiveil> yeah, as Tony has said, a lot of grunt work is needed to actually get your list of monuments
[20:39] <Bidgee> indeed TonySouter! 
[20:39] <Lankiveil> its made even more fun in Australia that differnet levels of government have different lists
[20:39] <TonySouter> yeah, but once prepped, we're in forever
[20:39] <gnangarra> if its limited to war memorials the list is already available
[20:39] <Graham87> as outlined in Kerry's email
[20:40] <Lankiveil> @gnangarra: Is there a national list of war memorials available?
[20:40] <gnangarra> yeah just going thru AWM it has one
[20:40] <TonySouter> yes; I was going to suggest that we narrow-scope it first time, and even try to join the oct. 2013 comp
[20:40] <gnangarra> 6216 memorials 
[20:40] <gnangarra> if some one shoots one that isnt listed there we can just add them as we go
[20:40] <TonySouter> we could decide on a few topics, manageable to hire someone to compile ... not the full catastrophe first time
[20:41] <Bidgee> there is also another one online, I'll see if I can find it
[20:41] <gnangarra> Commons already has a category structure for them
[20:41] <gnangarra>
[20:41] <caitcatt1> I
[20:41] <Lankiveil> @gnangarra: Are you talking about
[20:41] <Lankiveil> ah, beaten :p
[20:41] <TonySouter> thing is, WLM has a very beneficial effect for a chapter, in a number of ways
[20:42] <TonySouter> good way to get more members, to start with
[20:42] <Guest66198> Do you think there are people who might get involved if we do something official?
[20:42] <Lankiveil> aye
[20:42] <Lankiveil> it's a fantastic programme
[20:42] <caitcatt1> I'm back again. Have had two phone calls. Almost always from people who have some problems of one sort or another. They are all nice people who ring me, or almost all of them are. I have some good friends.
[20:42] <TonySouter> Kerry seemed to be pessimistic that 2013 could be done; I wonder whether we can manage it in a few themes?
[20:43] <Lankiveil> well, we could limit it to war memorials
[20:43] <Guest66198> I'm not completely clear on the difference between officially and unofficially joining wlm....
[20:43] <TonySouter> and the lists are readily accessible?
[20:43] <Lankiveil> that website doesn't seem to have an easily accessible list of them all but it could be retrieved I'm sure somehow
[20:43] <Bidgee> yep, we need new blood on Commons. not many Aussies contribute these days.
[20:43] <TonySouter> exactly
[20:43] <Guest66198> how will wlm create new contributors?
[20:44] <Guest66198> Is it marketed?
[20:44] <TonySouter> photography is a great way to increase member numbers
[20:44] <Graham87> Does it create contributors that stick around?
[20:44] <gnangarra> lists of all read there
[20:44] <TonySouter> commons gets a huge spike every october; unsure how many stick around, but even if a few do, that's good
[20:44] <TonySouter> and we need more members
[20:44] <Guest66198> How different would the program be is we just did Wmau loves pictures of monuments?
[20:45] <Guest66198> Because, i guess, we do :)
[20:45] <Steven_Zhang> isnt that what it is?
[20:45] <Lankiveil> @gnangarra: Yes, the main thing you need though is the coordinates where the monument is.  Which you can get if you click on "View" on that site.
[20:45] <gnangarra> are co-ords really necessary
[20:45] <Bidgee> would be good if someone did a census on sorts to get a number of how many stick around and for how long
[20:45] <Steven_Zhang> you mean survey?
[20:46] <TonySouter> the other thing I'd like a hired person to do is to marshall volunteer members for helping with the description pages and categorisation (something that is rather poorly done by other countries)
[20:46] <gnangarra> descriptions and categories are the biggest issues
[20:46] <TonySouter> I'd also like to see a how-to-do-it-well guide ... that, too, is sorely lacking internationally
[20:46] <gnangarra> but doing a basic shot sheet
[20:47] <TonySouter> when you see the crappy pics that are put up ...
[20:47] <gnangarra> location, designer, date built, 
[20:47] <Lankiveil> the info they want for the DB is here:
[20:47] <Lankiveil> I assume the coordinates are used for the iphone/android app
[20:47] <Bidgee> agree Tony!
[20:48] <Steven_Zhang> theres now an iphone app?
[20:48] <Lankiveil> I assume there is
[20:48] <Bidgee> yep
[20:48] <Lankiveil> there's an android one :p
[20:48] <TonySouter> memo to American photographers: WAIT till there are no parked cars obstructing the building???
[20:48] <Steven_Zhang> you know what they say about assuming
[20:48] <gnangarra> for uploading, but that encourages phone photos rather then qaulity
[20:48] <Bidgee> I use it time to time. 
[20:48] <Lankiveil> and yeah, a "how to do it" guide would be helpful, assuming anyone read it ;)
[20:48] * Pru ( has joined #wikimedia-au
[20:48] <TonySouter> the guide can be part of our membership drive
[20:49] <Steven_Zhang> evening pru
[20:49] <Lankiveil> hiya Pru
[20:49] <Bidgee> iPhone app is Geotag
[20:49] <Pru> Hi there - sorry late enough to be not useful
[20:49] <Guest66198> 11minutes of usefulness left..... :)
[20:49] <TonySouter> we're talking WLM
[20:49] <Guest66198> (Wiki loves monuments)
[20:49] <gnangarra> stats for app
[20:50] <Lankiveil> hehe
[20:50] <TonySouter> We already have a WLM page on the chapter's site, I think
[20:50] <Lankiveil> it's been something we've wanted to do for awhile
[20:50] <Lankiveil> how about I have a chat with Lodewijk and see exactly what info they'd need
[20:50] <Bidgee> yer the Common app is ok but stuck with onlince and no where to add categories
[20:51] <Lankiveil> we would very definitely need volunteers to do a lot of the gruntwork if we do WLM this year though
[20:51] <TonySouter> Suggest we rectruit a WLM contact person among the membership for each capital city
[20:51] <Guest66198> Has anyone expressed any interest in helping in that way?
[20:51] <caitcatt1> A friend of mine is on a committee that is trying to organise a statue in Melbourne for a VC winner. If it's ever built it would be a great pic. Not only in Commons but on the entry for the VC winner himself. A man who has a Melbourne suburb named after him. It's in the City of Darebin yet that clowncil is not interested in the statue being located in its bailiwick.
[20:52] <Lankiveil> heh, "clowncil".  If that's a Freudian slip it's the best one ever.
[20:52] <Graham87> bbl, dinner
[20:52] <gnangarra> biggest issue is the making the lists, a request to AWM from the committee  may get access to the raw data in one hit
[20:52] * Graham87 ( has left #wikimedia-au (No reason)
[20:52] <Lankiveil> aye
[20:53] <Lankiveil> Tony, I don't suppose you'd be interested in coordinating getting the state capital coordinators? :)
[20:54] <TonySouter> I was hoping a hired person would do this
[20:54] <Bidgee> see what I can find and do (re: the lists), busy time wise ATM
[20:54] <Lankiveil> aye, me too Bidgee
[20:55] <Lankiveil> by the time we're in a position to hire anyone, it'll be too late for 2013
[20:55] <TonySouter> middle of year ... isn't that enough time?
[20:56] <Bidgee> something I want to work towards
[20:56] <Lankiveil> according to the timeline we have to commit pretty soon
[20:56] <Lankiveil>
[20:56] <Lankiveil> oh wait, that's the 2012 one even though its linked from the 2013 page
[20:57] <TonySouter> can't we afford to hire 20 hours to start it up?
[20:57] <TonySouter> or 30
[20:57] <Guest66198> Is there somebody who'd be able to do the job in that time?
[20:57] <Lankiveil> its not the money, it's working out how to actually do the hire
[20:58] <Guest66198> Seems like a steep learning curve!
[20:58] <TonySouter> time for committee action
[20:58] <Guest66198> (That's three days, no?)
[20:58] <TonySouter> a week: 35 hours
[20:58] <Lankiveil> also, I'd prefer to see some concrete commitment from volunteers to help out before we jump in
[20:58] <TonySouter> committee can work out the hourly rate, and do some ringing around to get a shortlist together
[20:59] <Lankiveil> okay, there's only a few minutes to go, so I'd like to move on...
[20:59] <TonySouter> committee also needs to determine the job brief in writing
[20:59] <Lankiveil> as a bit of a housekeeping proposal, I drafted this today:
[21:00] <Lankiveil> basically a move to remove the rule that lets the committee fine members of the chapter
[21:00] <gnangarra> sounds good
[21:00] <Lankiveil> any comments?
[21:00] <TonySouter> yes, it's a ridiculous rule
[21:00] <Lankiveil> I take it that it's there to recover costs from club members who damage club property, but as we don't have any phyiscal property that's not really a consideration
[21:00] <caitcatt1> The rule is stupid. 
[21:01] <Steven_Zhang> hmm?
[21:01] <Steven_Zhang> let me see
[21:01] <TonySouter> "conduct unbecoming a member" – like farting while typing?
[21:01] <Lankiveil> hahaah
[21:01] <Steven_Zhang> hah
[21:01] <gnangarra> get funds and not using them, accounting for them
[21:01] <Lankiveil> wearing that shirt that John did to the Education Symposium? ;)
[21:01] <Steven_Zhang> i think that'd be an effective way of raising funds fo rus
[21:02] <Steven_Zhang> *for us
[21:02] <caitcatt1> Or like me writing irreleant things all the time. I get sidetracked so easily.
[21:02] <Lankiveil> okay, so I won't have any trouble finding seconders for that?  Splendid.
[21:02] <TonySouter> any other rule changes?
[21:02] <Steven_Zhang> we're over time.
[21:02] <TonySouter> like clarifying the "public officer" thing?
[21:02] <Guest66198> I guess we're out of time....
[21:03] <Steven_Zhang> public officer was removed when the new act was introduced 
[21:03] <TonySouter> ok, bye folks
[21:03] <Lankiveil> @TonySouter: Yes, in the process of drafting a proposal for that.
[21:03] <Guest66198> ta ta for now :)
[21:03] <Lankiveil> okay
[21:03] * Guest66198 has quit IRC (Quit: Colloquy for iPad -
[21:03] <Lankiveil> thanks everyone for your time :)