Meeting:Public (2013-12-01)

16:04 Steven_Zhang: OK, we will give it one more minute then get underway
16:05 Steven_Zhang: okay
16:05 Steven_Zhang: so, it's 4.05pm aedst
16:05 Steven_Zhang: just so we all remember, these public meetings are logged
16:05 Pru has joined 
16:05 Steven_Zhang: and put on the public WMAU website
16:06 Steven_Zhang: Hi Pru.
16:06 Steven_Zhang: OK, where to start.
16:06 Steven_Zhang: the AGM seems like the place to start.
16:06 Steven_Zhang: on the 23rd November (last Saturday) Wikimedia Australia held their annual general meeting
16:07 Steven_Zhang: where reports were accepted and the 2013-2014 Committee was elected.
16:07 JohnReaves has joined
16:07 Steven_Zhang: The new committee consists of Steven Zhang (President), Gideon Digby (Vice President), Andrew Owens (Secretary)
16:08 Steven_Zhang: and Pru Mitchell, Robert Myers, Charles Gregory and Michael Billington are our four ordinary members.
16:08 Steven_Zhang: Our treasurer position is currently vacant.
16:08 Steven_Zhang: first off, i guess, is anyone who's a member willing?
16:08 Steven_Zhang: *grins*
16:08 juliancolton has joined 
16:09 Steven_Zhang: Hm
16:09 Risker has joined 
16:09 Steven_Zhang: Huh, lot of people here
16:09 Steven_Zhang: Hello Julian, Risker
16:09 juliancolton: waves
16:09 Risker: waves
16:09 Orderinchaos: hey guys :)
16:09 Steven_Zhang: just giving the summary of events at our general meeting last week
16:09 bidgee: Hi Julian and Risker
16:10 Steven_Zhang: as to who was elected to the committee
16:10 Risker: Hi all....just eavesdropping :)
16:10 Steven_Zhang: So, yeah. That's our committee, and we're currently looking for a treasurer
16:10 Steven_Zhang: next, our projects
16:11 Steven_Zhang: We're currently working on our annual plan for 2014
16:12 Steven_Zhang: a draft is currently
16:12 Steven_Zhang: which has some ideas proposed by members.
16:12 Steven_Zhang: does anyone have any input on it?
16:12 Steven_Zhang: or comments in general?
16:13 Steven_Zhang: or things that are missing from the proposal?
16:14 Steven_Zhang: no? okay
16:14 Steven_Zhang: well. that's pretty much the bulk of what was on the agenda
16:14 Steven_Zhang: i suppose we can just open it up for general discussion/questions/comments
16:15 Orderinchaos: yeah that sounds like a good idea
16:16 Steven_Zhang: gnangarra: do you want to give some info about Wiki Takes Waroona?
16:16 gnangarra: 2000 photos gathered, 70 participants
16:17 gnangarra: really good day, well support by a keen LGA
16:17 Steven_Zhang: LGA?
16:17 gnangarra: local government autority
16:17 Steven_Zhang: ah :)
16:18 Steven_Zhang: that's great :)
16:18 bidgee: Nice!
16:18 gnangarra: really nice before the event we had just 4 photos of the region
16:18 Steven_Zhang: hmm
16:18 bidgee: Indeed, WA is poorly photographed.
16:18 Orderinchaos: worth noting this is the most successful Wiki Takes event yet conducted in Australia - each one has been an addition to the knowledgebase
16:19 Steven_Zhang: remember the Wikipedia town?
16:19 Steven_Zhang: idea
16:19 Steven_Zhang:
16:19 Orderinchaos: yeah, failed due to a lack of interest if I recall?
16:20 gnangarra: getting one off the ground is hard work
16:20 Steven_Zhang: mmm, it could be
16:20 Steven_Zhang: we'd need to maybe get the message out about it
16:20 Orderinchaos: what we've basically learned over several events, both successful and otherwise, is that the key ingredients to making it work are a strong driver (i.e. a person or small group) from the Wikimedia side who are committed to it
16:21 Steven_Zhang: idk about everyone else but when I go to an event i always take a camera, and it's generally in the hopes I'll get some photos I can put on commons :)
16:21 Orderinchaos: and even more importantly an active partner who is also on-side with the goals. we've had active partners who are not on-side, and passive partners, so have been able to measure different impacts
16:21 gnangarra: yup
16:21 Steven_Zhang: if we think about it, if one town we had 4 photos
16:22 Steven_Zhang: and now have over 2000
16:22 Steven_Zhang: well, just imagine what we could do for other places.
16:22 gnangarra: there are many wonderful images
16:22 gnangarra: we could really make a difference
16:22 Orderinchaos: someone like Gnangarra or I could go to a place and take hundreds of photos, and have done many times, but the beauty of Wiki Takes is the involvement and engagement, and the potential to build relationships
16:23 gnangarra: we aslo added new longer term contributors in the process
16:23 Orderinchaos: and of course we as Wikipedians might take a different view as to what is important or significant compared to someone who lives there
16:23 Steven_Zhang: Yup.
16:24 gnangarra: suprisingly what we want and what people take in these are very similar
16:24 gnangarra: they just need a bit of guidance in goals
16:25 samwilson: were there mostly locals? or people from elsewhere too?
16:25 gnangarra: we also need to improve the available tools as well
16:25 gnangarra: a bit of a mixturer
16:25 Orderinchaos: yes, the toolserver Wiki Takes tool is painful.
16:26 Orderinchaos: (I used it for Joondalup 2 years ago, ended up giving up and just uploading the images through Commonist!)
16:27 gnangarra: all the photos have been uploaded to the toolserver but they havent been tfr'd to commons
16:28 Orderinchaos: two lots have been (as I did them)
16:28 Orderinchaos: but will have to look again and see what we can get across
16:28 Steven_Zhang: Maybe some watching idly will be able to give some input here
16:29 Steven_Zhang: but as members (or potential members, members of other chapters)
16:29 Steven_Zhang: what do you think we are missing as a chapter? in the past we haven't really had public meetings or they have been announced an hour before the start time
16:30 Steven_Zhang: something we want to do this year and next is better engage with our members.
16:31 Orderinchaos: yeah it's one of the reasons I came back...
16:31 samwilson: The Perth meetups have been fun I reckon.
16:31 Steven_Zhang: meetups was something we did last year
16:32 Steven_Zhang: I tried to do them once a month in melbournbe
16:32 Steven_Zhang: They had good numbers at start but whittled down
16:32 gnangarra: we do one every 3 months here
16:32 Pru: I think Meetups that have a purpose, eg demo, learn a new skill, do some work are more likely to be successful
16:32 Steven_Zhang: Yeah, I agree.
16:32 gnangarra: the perth have never had a "pruose" or plan
16:32 Steven_Zhang: we need to also find ways to engage the community in general
16:33 Pru: Makes it easier to invite nonmembers along than just a social/meeting event IMHO
16:33 samwilson: yeah, a focus sounds good
16:33 Pru: Wish we could all come to Perth meetups:) Missing WA
16:33 Orderinchaos: yeah, that was something I noticed in Melb when I was there, the meetups were more structured and stuff. whereas here in Perth we found any attempt to structure them drove people away so we just have a social catchup
16:33 samwilson: oh we're not that far away! come on over 
16:34 gnangarra: :)
16:34 Steven_Zhang: WE are not that far away
16:34 Steven_Zhang: that said I would like to go to Perth this year at some point.
16:34 Steven_Zhang: I haven't been to WA
16:34 Steven_Zhang: or SA
16:34 Steven_Zhang: or NT
16:35 Orderinchaos: I can now as of 3 months ago say I've spent at least 2 weeks in every major city in Australia
16:35 Pru: Will be there April 2014 for the school library conference. We could ask to do a presentation at the conference
16:35 Steven_Zhang: until recently I thought WA was "perth" and "desert"
16:35 gnangarra: mostly is steve
16:35 Orderinchaos: pretty much is :P
16:35 Steven_Zhang: heh
16:36 gnangarra: there a couple of farms between perth and the desert
16:36 Orderinchaos: we call that the wheatbelt...
16:36 samwilson: is anyone coming to by the way? tim starling's giving a talk
16:36 Steven_Zhang: hmm.
16:36 gnangarra: and a coupl ebigholes as well
16:36 Steven_Zhang: Brianna talked to me about that yesterday, I think?
16:36 Orderinchaos: country towns here would surprise those used to similar sized towns over east... Cooma only has 8,000 but feels bigger than Geraldton or Albany which have 4 times the pop
16:36 Steven_Zhang: it was someone yesterday anyways
16:37 gnangarra: where is it sam
16:37 samwilson: UWA
16:37 Orderinchaos: gnangarra: Wiki Takes Wave Rock?
16:37 caitcatt has joined 
16:37 samwilson: (perth for once!)
16:37 Orderinchaos: sam: how much does it cost to attend?
16:37 Steven_Zhang: we have partnerships with SLNSW and SLQ
16:37 Steven_Zhang: what about SLWA?
16:38 Steven_Zhang: or something along those lines :)
16:38 Orderinchaos: just looking at the page, 6-10 January
16:38 Steven_Zhang: hello caitcatt 
16:38 samwilson: about 300 I think
16:38 p858snake|l has joined
16:38 Steven_Zhang: including airfares? sweet! :P
16:39 Steven_Zhang: welcome p858snake|l 
16:39 p858snake|l: hello.
16:40 Pru: SLWA would be great, but also worth trying WA Museum. Do you have any contacts there Andrew
16:40 Orderinchaos: we have a couple in SLWA/SRO but it's been slow getting anything going. they're reliant on a govt department who can be quite bureaucratic and restrictive
16:40 Orderinchaos: Wiki Takes Perth Foreshore was done with their support last year
16:41 Steven_Zhang: ah, the government.
16:41 Steven_Zhang: gotta love the government.
16:41 samwilson: SLQ sounds like a whole different world.... i've been enjoying reading their blog etc. lately
16:41 gnangarra: libraries and museums as poorly funded
16:41 gnangarra: *are
16:41 Orderinchaos: BTW $399 regular (includes dinner), $99 student.
16:42 samwilson: you can get it cheap if you volunteer I think.
16:43 samwilson: is anyone here involved in any mediawiki development of any sort?
16:44 legoktm: hello
16:44 legoktm: his talk looks interesting...
16:44 legoktm: samwilson: :)
16:45 Steven_Zhang: He's pretty good.
16:45 samwilson: yeah, i've been exploring more (using MW at work now for some things) lately
16:45 Steven_Zhang: I wrote the underline and bold code for the visual editor :P
16:45 Orderinchaos: if they run another WMF hackathon Perth may be on board :)
16:46 Orderinchaos: Steven: cool :)
16:46 samwilson: cool! I'm in
16:46 legoktm: next MediaWiki hackathon is in Switzerland
16:46 Orderinchaos: the last one was a global one.
16:46 samwilson: oh, let's go there then. fewer deserts I think.
16:46 Steven_Zhang: hmm
16:46 legoktm:
16:46 Steven_Zhang: they normally do them at Wikimania, no?
16:46 legoktm: yes, there too
16:47 Steven_Zhang: oh yeah
16:47 legoktm: but there is normally an independent hackathon in late spring
16:47 Steven_Zhang: legoktm: you helped me set up my laptop :P
16:47 legoktm: :)
16:47 Steven_Zhang: i remember because the wifi was painfully slow.
16:47 legoktm: yeah :|
16:48 legoktm: his talk sounds interesting, I hope it gets recorded
16:48 samwilson: I thing plug are recording everything
16:48 Orderinchaos:,_2013
16:52 samwilson: the nov. 9th one this year didn't happen I take it?,_2013/Meetups/Perth,_AU
16:55 gnangarra: no it never got off the ground
16:55 gnangarra: no local connection
16:56 Steven_Zhang: bummer.
16:57 Steven_Zhang: I think we should at least start doing meetups again
16:57 samwilson: I'm sorry I didn't pay attention... i would've tried to help... 
16:57 Orderinchaos: they didn't really consult us until less than 2 weeks before it was due to run
16:57 Orderinchaos: my other org could have organised it but that sort of timing, esp in November in Australia, is nuts
16:58 samwilson: ah well. next year!
16:59 gnangarra: next perth one is
16:59 Steven_Zhang: sounds good.
16:59 Steven_Zhang: what's the attendance like?
16:59 gnangarra: around 10
17:00 gnangarra: mostly active editors
17:03 Orderinchaos: it's like a little community that's built up over the years
17:04 Steven_Zhang: would be great to build those in a lot of places
17:05 gnangarra: it just needs one or two who are willing to put in the effort
17:05 gnangarra: to organise and commit to being there
17:06 Pru: and a venue. Mr Tulk would be our equivalent to Aroma - but much too noisy
17:07 Steven_Zhang: Errol's has worked in the past for Melbourne.
17:07 Orderinchaos: we choose a venue at the time, have had some interesting ones over time like Tranby Cottage and the Fremantle Arts Centre
17:07 gnangarra: any where can work we started as a beer and paizza caht, then evlove to coffee and cake
17:08 gnangarra: coffee chop inthe library is relatively quiet any way
17:09 gnangarra: must o back to tranby nice scones, jam and cream :)
17:09 samwilson: the freopedia editing sessions last year were in the freo library; was pretty good
17:09 samwilson: no coffee though
17:09 gnangarra: tru but we didnt need coffee then
17:09 samwilson: or beer :)
17:09 Steven_Zhang: Errol's was expensive
17:10 Steven_Zhang: details, details.
17:10 Steven_Zhang: I think I'd like to bring up the linkage project
17:10 gnangarra: but we adjorn to rosie one night
17:11 gnangarra: ok Steve back on topic -- linkage project with UQ/APC
17:11 Steven_Zhang:
17:11 Pru: Thanks Steve. Could you summarise the deliverables for WM-AU, other than funding
17:11 Steven_Zhang: and
17:11 Steven_Zhang: as in, what we get out of it?
17:12 legoktm has left 
17:12 Steven_Zhang: My understanding is there will be wikipedian workshops
17:13 gnangarra: for $140,000 is jimbo taking them :)
17:13 Steven_Zhang: there's a bit more to it
17:13 Steven_Zhang:
17:13 Pru: No - what are we committed to providing besides funding?
17:14 Steven_Zhang: oh, what do we have to provide?
17:14 Steven_Zhang: that's mostly it.
17:14 Steven_Zhang: at the moment, we aren't committed
17:14 Steven_Zhang: in terms of in a contract
17:15 gnangarra: "six day-long workshops in a range of capital cities for experienced Wikipedia editors to provide training in advanced research and editing skills"
17:15 Steven_Zhang: the main outcomes relevant to us I believe are, yes, those
17:15 Steven_Zhang: and improved wikimedia content
17:15 Steven_Zhang: on australian paralympics
17:16 Pru: the workshops are by Wikimedians or for them? ie do we have to provide the trainers?
17:16 gnangarra: we have to provide the trainers
17:16 Steven_Zhang: "A program of creating and improving articles on the English Wikipedia to provide encyclopedic levels of detail on individual athletes, coaches, administrators, events, and the complex and developing system of disability classifications, under the terms of Wikipedia's content policies. The result will be a large number of high-quality Wikipedia articles - where presently the topic is not well represented - with their emphasis on 
17:16 Steven_Zhang: suppressed narrative voice. The articles will accord with the site's well-honed protocols for sourcing and verification in a worldwide, online encyclopedic context, and its emphasis on free content."
17:16 Steven_Zhang: that seems to be the main outcome for us
17:17 gnangarra: "its members and other Australian volunteers who will assist in the writing and editing of the articles, and the training of contributors at the workshops, will represent a substantial in-kind contribution."
17:18 Pru: "contribution includes the technical development of the e-history and a mobile-device application"
17:19 Steven_Zhang: yup, saw that too.
17:19 Pru: That technical development could benefit many other similar projects if done properly
17:20 Pru: Do we have people in mind for these roles?
17:21 Steven_Zhang: Not at this stage, no.
17:22 Steven_Zhang: I have a meeting with UQ and APC on Thursday
17:22 Steven_Zhang: i think then we will get a better idea of our contribution
17:22 Steven_Zhang: and where it will go
17:22 gnangarra: according to the document "WMAU will provide an annual cash contribution of $45,308 p.a., comprising the part-funding for the PhD stipend, funding for one of the part-time research assistants, 6 workshops each year"
17:23 samwilson: (sorry, got to go. thanks for a good meeting! am excited about what's coming up... see anyone at hopefully.)
17:23 gnangarra: ciao sam
17:23 samwilson: :)
17:23 gnangarra: see you around freo
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17:24 Steven_Zhang: hmm.
17:24 Steven_Zhang: we've done edit training workshops in the past.
17:25 Pru: Probably most constructive thing we can do at this stage is make sure Steve has all our questions to take to the meeting Thursday
17:25 gnangarra: for a lot less
17:25 Steven_Zhang: Can anyone from the doc figure out the difference between the proposed workshops and the ones we already do?
17:25 Steven_Zhang: Pru: those are best in an email probably :)
17:25 gnangarra: no they appear to be similar to what is done everywhere else just with a focus in paralympic content
17:25 Steven_Zhang: (just on that, managed to get the flights for around $270 return after points were redeemed)
17:26 Pru: Good idea, and well done on flights
17:26 Steven_Zhang: I suppose that may raise the question
17:26 Steven_Zhang: of interest
17:26 Steven_Zhang: Paralympics is definitely an important subject
17:26 Steven_Zhang: however, if we have limited success with normal workshops
17:27 Steven_Zhang: teaching people how to edit etc
17:27 Steven_Zhang: I wonder if these may have less success
17:27 gnangarra: yep they are hard to maintain afterwards
17:27 Steven_Zhang: as the attendees have to edit one particular topic
17:27 Steven_Zhang: is an idea I think is good, btw
17:28 Steven_Zhang: to give the edit workshops a better chance of success.
17:28 Pru: I would assume the paralympic community (and UQ) would be responsible for garnering the support for local workshops?
17:29 Pru: Or would community members be partnered with experienced editors to get the content published?
17:30 gnangarra: one focus of the project is to create a commercial book about the sports
17:30 Steven_Zhang:  Yup.
17:30 gnangarra: "Phase one (years 1 and 2) will comprise the research and writing of the hard copy book"
17:31 gnangarra: "Phase three (years 2 and 3) will be the creation of Wikipedia articles."
17:31 Steven_Zhang: hmm.
17:32 Steven_Zhang: so, if we don't secure funding for years 2 and 3
17:32 gnangarra: "At six workshops over years 2 and 3, UQ will prepare the topics, themes and identities from the narrative of the hard-copy history, the APC will ensure the relevant materials are available on a digital platform accessible for Wikipedians, and Wikimedia Australia will recruit volunteers, provide training to develop editorials skills, and ensure the generation of content on the English Wikipedia. "
17:32 Steven_Zhang: we may have nothing to show for our year 1 of funding?
17:32 Pru: Would prefer it was the other way round, ie document the research and writing as we go and then produce the hard copy book 
17:32 gnangarra: there no obligation to do that part
17:34 Steven_Zhang: Huh. Odd.
17:34 Pru: Sorry - didn't mean we produce the hard copy book. Think there should be an expectation that a wiki be used as 'the digital platform'
17:34 Pru: throughout the research process
17:35 Steven_Zhang: I think it'd make sense to do the wiki content first.
17:35 Steven_Zhang: then again, I spoke with someone about the project yesterday
17:35 Steven_Zhang: they thought that the book created could be used as a source for the wikipedia articles
17:35 gnangarra: the wiki content shold be on going and thw orkshops should be early part of the project not the last
17:36 Steven_Zhang: but then, the info going into the book comes from somewhere, so the wikipedia articles could just use the original info source
17:36 gnangarra: we couldnt use the book as it'd be a COI
17:36 Steven_Zhang: that too.
17:37 Risker has left 
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17:37 gnangarra: or fail as a its written by the subject
17:37 Pru: agreed! We use the original sources - help people get them online if necessary, and make this an example of open, collaborative research process
17:37 gnangarra: yep, thru using wiki's to write
17:37 Steven_Zhang: yup.
17:37 Steven_Zhang: well, I think we have some info
17:37 Steven_Zhang: What do we think about the project in general?
17:38 Steven_Zhang: for me, $140,000 seems like a lot
17:38 gnangarra: too expensive
17:38 Steven_Zhang: what do we think about $28,000?
17:38 gnangarra: over 3 years
17:38 Steven_Zhang: which is year one 
17:38 gnangarra: too much as well given our available funds
17:38 Steven_Zhang: it's about a third.
17:39 gnangarra: especially as a big portion is for a stipend
17:39 Pru: I don't know about the rules for ARC grants (one of the things Steve will need to check on THursday) but can we convert cash into inkind
17:40 Pru: Seems we have more expertise and volunteers than we have cash at this stage. 
17:40 gnangarra: yes but how do you value volunteers contributions
17:41 gnangarra: and the hosting of of content
17:41 Pru: Put an hourly amount on in line with industry equivalent, eg editor rates based on Aust Society Authors etc
17:41 gnangarra: provision of photographs form events
17:41 Steven_Zhang: it seems to be an option.
17:41 caitcatt1 has joined 
17:42 Steven_Zhang: it's definitely something that was discussed.
17:42 gnangarra: giving bidgee $28K to run around to events and take photos would get you a lot of photos
17:42 Steven_Zhang: I will be mentioning it on Thursday.
17:42 Steven_Zhang: or the amount of little projects it could fund.
17:43 Steven_Zhang: Having an admin assistant once a week to help us with stuff
17:43 Steven_Zhang: was budgeted at around 20K a year I believe?
17:43 gnangarra: for $28k of funding I could photo every town in WA
17:43 Steven_Zhang:
17:43 Pru: We wouldn't be paying that to volunteers necessarily but would be 'crediting' it against the liability we have agreed to in this grant application
17:44 Steven_Zhang: Yup.
17:44 gnangarra: Iyup
17:44 caitcatt1: Thanks for your greeting before Steven. I have a new computer and did not know how to use the IRC nick on it. I went back on an old computer and it worked. Also congratulations on your election as president. Lyle
17:44 Steven_Zhang: oh, hello Lyle
17:45 Steven_Zhang: i was wondering who your nick was :P
17:45 caitcatt1: John knew instantly last time I logged on!
17:45 Steven_Zhang: WELL SORRY :P
17:45 Steven_Zhang: lol
17:46 Steven_Zhang: oops
17:46 Steven_Zhang: for caps heh
17:46 Steven_Zhang: OK
17:46 caitcatt1: Don't worry. I have great fun with my nom de plumes!
17:46 Steven_Zhang: well, I suggest we send through any questions/comments about the linkage project
17:47 Steven_Zhang: and I'll raise them on Thursday
17:47 gnangarra: ok
17:47 Steven_Zhang: hopefully the weather is good on Thursday in Sydney :O
17:47 Steven_Zhang: :)
17:47 gnangarra: take a camera :P
17:47 Steven_Zhang: 28 and rain
17:47 Steven_Zhang: lol.
17:47 Steven_Zhang: that'd be right.
17:47 Steven_Zhang: humidity 80%
17:48 Steven_Zhang: brillliant.
17:48 gnangarra: perfect you'll get experience  brisbane at the same time
17:48 Steven_Zhang: I've been to Brisbane
17:48 Steven_Zhang: not in a while
17:48 Steven_Zhang: i went to the gold coast last year
17:49 Steven_Zhang: Oh, we should briefly discuss berlin?
17:49 gnangarra: nice city a little at the moment
17:49 gnangarra: cold
17:49 Steven_Zhang: i mean the chapters conference
17:49 gnangarra: :P
17:49 Steven_Zhang: normally, two people are sent
17:49 Steven_Zhang: as in, covered dor
17:49 Steven_Zhang: for
17:50 Steven_Zhang: For the record, this meeting is no longer logged.
17:50 Steven_Zhang: we will work out exactly the stop point
17:51 Steven_Zhang: I think the Wikimedia conference is an opportunity for us to present us as a refreshed chapter
17:51 Steven_Zhang: this old horse she aint what she used to be :P
17:51 gnangarra: yup
17:52 gnangarra: would think you and andrew as the best choice
17:52 Pru: Agreed if you can
17:52 Steven_Zhang: I can.
17:52 Steven_Zhang: it might make sense as I have quite a few contacts with WMF
17:53 Steven_Zhang: and I believe Andrew does with european chapters
17:53 gnangarra: you both do
17:53 gnangarra: and it better to build on than start from sctratch
17:56 gnangarra: andrew appears to have dropped out
17:58 Steven_Zhang: Hmm.
17:58 Steven_Zhang: I guess we can discuss that over email :)
17:59 gnangarra: yep
17:59 gnangarra: its gone wuiet again
17:59 gnangarra: quiet
17:59 Steven_Zhang: i've never been to Europe. People tell me it's a death of a flight.
17:59 gnangarra: na it aint that bad
17:59 gnangarra: I did washington via johennesburg
18:00 caitcatt1 has left ()
18:00 gnangarra: 34 hours inthe air
18:02 kylu is now known as kylu[afk]
18:03 Steven_Zhang: really?
18:03 Steven_Zhang: 34 hours?
18:03 Steven_Zhang: bleh. lol
18:03 gnangarra: yep
18:03 Pru has left IRC ()
18:03 gnangarra: mostly over ocean
18:04 gnangarra: ok sounds like a good time to finish up
18:05 Steven_Zhang: well, i think it's been productive
18:06 gnangarra: definately, next one  12 Jan?
18:06 Steven_Zhang: gotta run :)
18:06 Steven_Zhang: er
18:06 gnangarra: caio
18:06 Steven_Zhang: 12 jan?
18:06 Steven_Zhang: nope, 5th :)
18:06 gnangarra: yeah once the holiday fun has passed
18:06 Steven_Zhang: let's discuss it :)
18:06 gnangarra: :)
18:06 Steven_Zhang: ciao
18:07 Steven_Zhang is now known as SteveAway
18:10 Orderinchaos: 12th is probably better as many will still be away on holidays on the 5th
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