Difference between revisions of "Meeting talk:2012 AGM/Candidates/Michael Billington"

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:::Chris, thanks for clarifying that. Perhaps you might take it up with Myers, who seems to be putting you in the soup, although some of it is innuendo. Perhaps you're being used. To Digby, what about ''my'' privacy here on the list? I had to endure shocking insults and an ANI started almost simultaneously at en.WP. That two-pronged approach—some of of kicking off his election campaign?—already linked the two personal attacks on me. Let me make this clear: <u>I will defend myself when under attack.</u> [[User:Tony1|Tony1]] 13:59, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 
:::Chris, thanks for clarifying that. Perhaps you might take it up with Myers, who seems to be putting you in the soup, although some of it is innuendo. Perhaps you're being used. To Digby, what about ''my'' privacy here on the list? I had to endure shocking insults and an ANI started almost simultaneously at en.WP. That two-pronged approach—some of of kicking off his election campaign?—already linked the two personal attacks on me. Let me make this clear: <u>I will defend myself when under attack.</u> [[User:Tony1|Tony1]] 13:59, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 
::::Tony do want to copy edit that, what I think your saying is that you were upset because there was discussion on the members list and at ANI. I have never condoned the words that were used to describe you, likewise I have never condoned that way in which it appears that you were stalking Laura. That issue blew up because people couldnt disengage, because instead of working together to improve things it became adverserial and everyone felt like they were under attack. There's a lot more to the exchange than those last few comments en.WP and Wikinews are littered with the tale, the moment never started at ANI, it didnt start at DYK with attempt to topic ban Laura it started along time before that. Its been feed by innumerable comments and reactions like a snow ball rolling down hill its grown but on that day it hit something and exploded. When it comes down to it the membership list needs to private, members need to be able to voice opinion on subjects without fear of them being broadcast publicly, with that goes a level of expectation on how people comment there as well. On that day the trust of the whole community was shaken by making a comment public, it also caused considerable concern about WMAU members on en.WP implying involvement of cabalistic proportions that in my opinion is something the committee should have addressed in timely fashion instead its been left to fester. Trying to move things forward Hawkeye has appologised to the community for his choice of words, he's also appologised to you which you acepted gracefully. IHMO its also time for you to appologise to the community for breach its trust, while I'm happy to continue this discourse, its has nothing to do with Micheals candidacy to which I wish him the best of luck feel free to take further discussion to my talk page. [[User:Gnangarra|Gnan]][[User_talk:Gnangarra|garra]] 15:05, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 
::::Tony do want to copy edit that, what I think your saying is that you were upset because there was discussion on the members list and at ANI. I have never condoned the words that were used to describe you, likewise I have never condoned that way in which it appears that you were stalking Laura. That issue blew up because people couldnt disengage, because instead of working together to improve things it became adverserial and everyone felt like they were under attack. There's a lot more to the exchange than those last few comments en.WP and Wikinews are littered with the tale, the moment never started at ANI, it didnt start at DYK with attempt to topic ban Laura it started along time before that. Its been feed by innumerable comments and reactions like a snow ball rolling down hill its grown but on that day it hit something and exploded. When it comes down to it the membership list needs to private, members need to be able to voice opinion on subjects without fear of them being broadcast publicly, with that goes a level of expectation on how people comment there as well. On that day the trust of the whole community was shaken by making a comment public, it also caused considerable concern about WMAU members on en.WP implying involvement of cabalistic proportions that in my opinion is something the committee should have addressed in timely fashion instead its been left to fester. Trying to move things forward Hawkeye has appologised to the community for his choice of words, he's also appologised to you which you acepted gracefully. IHMO its also time for you to appologise to the community for breach its trust, while I'm happy to continue this discourse, its has nothing to do with Micheals candidacy to which I wish him the best of luck feel free to take further discussion to my talk page. [[User:Gnangarra|Gnan]][[User_talk:Gnangarra|garra]] 15:05, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 +
:::::Thanks Gnangarra. You are quite right, this thread isn't related to my candidacy (Of course if there are any relevant questions then I'll happily answer them below). --[[User:MichaelBillington|MichaelBillington]] 20:26, 19 November 2012 (EST)

Latest revision as of 20:26, 19 November 2012

Questions

Hi Micheal, thank you for your statement I have a couple questions

  1. Without naming or identifiing the candidate if one exists do you have concerns about working with any candidates to further the goals of WMAU?
  2. What is your opinion of the relationship between WMAU and The Foundation, can it be improved?
  3. do you have any plans that would cause you to be unavaiable for an extended period of time?


Thanks Gideon Gnangarra 19:47, 15 November 2012 (EST)

Hi Gideon,
  1. I'm confident that all the candidates have their heads on straight, so I would be surprised if this is an issue. Without having worked with all of them in the past, this is more along the lines of an AGF assumption than anything else. --MichaelBillington 22:13, 16 November 2012 (EST)
  2. I think this goes without saying — we have responsibilities to meet to get funding from the WMF and we're not up to scratch at the moment. This particular aspect of our relationship with the WMF is one thing which the committee needs to get right next year, and Steven Zhang's approach to this particular issue is on the mark:

"One item of criticism in our FDC submission was that there were no clear metrics to measure the success of WMAU projects, and this may lead to a lack of confidence in our ability to deliver. If we create processes to measure success, I think this will address any ongoing concerns with the FDC."

  1. None at all. I'll be in Victoria for at least the next two years.

--MichaelBillington 22:13, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Question from Tony1

Michael, thanks for putting yourself forward! Are you familiar with the education programs undertaken in North America, India, and other places? They're complicated in structure and outcome, so you're quite forgiven if you haven't gone there; but if you have, are there lessons for any education program we might conduct in Australian schools and/or universities? Tony1 17:32, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Hi Tony. I don't know much about these, do they have project pages? What I was referring to in my statement was more along the lines of this: as an Australian organisation, we should be able to at least have a few pages about how free content and wikis could be applied in a specifically Australian setting, as a reference for educators. Our goals include promoting the use of free content, and I don't think we're doing this as well as we could.
  • Publicly recognising existing, suitable, quality free content and noting gaps where a class could create content as is a sane first step.
  • Breaking down the new national curriculum and identifying places where online collaboration would actually be useful for secondary educators is something else we could do.
Neither of these require any specific education program, and this is an area of personal interest which I'll be working on whether or not I'm on the committee. --MichaelBillington 22:13, 16 November 2012 (EST)
Michael, sorry, I misconstrued your reference to education in your statement. Education programs have been very problematic in the WM movement, and it's a work in progress, I'm afraid. In Australia, we've had no program, which might be a blessing given that the system needs to be stabilised (preferably not using our institutions as a testing lab, I'd say). Gillian's talk page has interesting info on this. Good luck. Tony1 22:24, 16 November 2012 (EST)
  • Michael, I regret having to come back to inform you that an allegation has been made by Robert Myers that you participated in some kind of "motion made by Gideon" to the chapter committee, also supported by himself and Chris Waters, apparently to hound me out of the chapter—although I'm unsure of the details, since he hasn't clearly stated them. Nor do I understand what the basis for such an action would be, if it was indeed made. Can you please clarify what has been going on behind my back? I have heard only conflicting rumours. Tony1 01:08, 18 November 2012 (EST)
As explained elsewhere, I haven't supported, seen any motion, nor made a motion, but I did make a submission to the committee, related to the concerns I expressed to you on the WM-AU list.
Any reply specifically to me, please make on my talk page. --Chris Watkins 12:41, 18 November 2012 (EST)
If you're going to make comments about me here, I'll reply here. Tony1 13:00, 18 November 2012 (EST)
Tony, I sent an email to the members list on the 5th November about you posting to ANI comments made on the members list I said.As I understand this list it has nothing to do with en.Wikipedia or any other project it about members being able to discuss matters related being members, its also not a public list and comments made here should not be publish. last night there was a heated exchanged between members which included some very poor choices of words thats not acceptable, Craig acted quickly to shut that discussion down. One member then chose to publish those comments on en.Wikipedia at ANI (link), Such a breach of privacy should be addressed by the committee, such actions damage the trust of the community and the ability of the membership to be open when issues arise. This was not behind your back in fact you responded to that email Gnangarra 13:15, 18 November 2012 (EST)
I overlooked: "apparently to hound me out of the chapter". I can only speak for myself, but I've never suggested that anyone be forced to leave the chapter, and am not aware of any motion along those lines. If it were the case that anyone had made such a motion about Tony, that would be very premature and I would speak against it - this has always been my opinion, regardless of the objections I have to his behavior. --Chris Watkins 13:23, 18 November 2012 (EST)
Chris, thanks for clarifying that. Perhaps you might take it up with Myers, who seems to be putting you in the soup, although some of it is innuendo. Perhaps you're being used. To Digby, what about my privacy here on the list? I had to endure shocking insults and an ANI started almost simultaneously at en.WP. That two-pronged approach—some of of kicking off his election campaign?—already linked the two personal attacks on me. Let me make this clear: I will defend myself when under attack. Tony1 13:59, 18 November 2012 (EST)
Tony do want to copy edit that, what I think your saying is that you were upset because there was discussion on the members list and at ANI. I have never condoned the words that were used to describe you, likewise I have never condoned that way in which it appears that you were stalking Laura. That issue blew up because people couldnt disengage, because instead of working together to improve things it became adverserial and everyone felt like they were under attack. There's a lot more to the exchange than those last few comments en.WP and Wikinews are littered with the tale, the moment never started at ANI, it didnt start at DYK with attempt to topic ban Laura it started along time before that. Its been feed by innumerable comments and reactions like a snow ball rolling down hill its grown but on that day it hit something and exploded. When it comes down to it the membership list needs to private, members need to be able to voice opinion on subjects without fear of them being broadcast publicly, with that goes a level of expectation on how people comment there as well. On that day the trust of the whole community was shaken by making a comment public, it also caused considerable concern about WMAU members on en.WP implying involvement of cabalistic proportions that in my opinion is something the committee should have addressed in timely fashion instead its been left to fester. Trying to move things forward Hawkeye has appologised to the community for his choice of words, he's also appologised to you which you acepted gracefully. IHMO its also time for you to appologise to the community for breach its trust, while I'm happy to continue this discourse, its has nothing to do with Micheals candidacy to which I wish him the best of luck feel free to take further discussion to my talk page. Gnangarra 15:05, 18 November 2012 (EST)
Thanks Gnangarra. You are quite right, this thread isn't related to my candidacy (Of course if there are any relevant questions then I'll happily answer them below). --MichaelBillington 20:26, 19 November 2012 (EST)